Compression

[RAWKAS]

OK, I know the whole spill about threshold, ratio, attack, and release when it comes to compressors but what i'm searching for is why. For example, you can usually record vocals starting at about -10db threshold and 2:1 ratio but why -10 and why 2:1. On what grounds do you know where to start your threshold and ratio on? When tracking out a bassline, would I look at the lowest db level and set my threshold there so that other higher bass notes don't go over that? As for the ratio do I look and what db the higher notes are going to and go off of that. Quick example. I'm tracking a guitar riff and the maintains a -4 db but some notes peak to 2db. Would my compressor look like -3 threshold with a 5:1 ratio?

 

[Equality 7-2521]

check out what i wrote in this previous thread.

https://www.illmuzik.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9932&highlight=compression

 

[RAWKAS]

I read the article but what im still not comprehending is what you do you base your threshold on. Is that a personal preference you make up and try to set it as low as you can without squasing the signal?

 

[5th Sequence]

the threshold is based on where the meat part of your sample is. You basically lower it to the point so compression only takes place on the part of the sample that needs to be compressed, but the rest of the time (when the sample isn't really loud) then it runs through uncompressed. I'm actually thinking mainly for samples with varying dynamic range (how vocals go from loud to soft). It'll flatten it out and make the loud parts lower and by using the gain, it brings the soft parts up. Just remember that the threshold is the point at which compression starts to take effect. Anything above that point, the compressor kicks in and does it's thing. If you want to heavily compress something, you'd bring the threshold down further and turn your ratio up more.

This is not a great explanation i'm sure it says it better in the article.

 

[RAWKAS]

Ok cool. Appreciate the info.

 

[Hypnotist]

check out what i wrote in this previous thread.

https://www.illmuzik.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9932&highlight=compression

Yo good article EQ.

The threshold is the line that you set for the compressor to begin kicking in. So if your audio signal has a ceiling of -8dB and you set your threshold to -10dB, then only that top between -10 and -8 will be compressed. But say you set it to -6, then nothing will be compressed, as your signal doesn't go past -8dB.

And then there's overcompression. Say you set it to -25dB. Now everything is pretty much being compressed, and it ends up lifeless. With only a little being compressed, it's acting more as a limiter so that you're not clipping. But with everything compressed, it's completely squashing your signal.

Hope that helped.

Hypno

 

[Elementree]

is it bad to put multi-band compression on your final mix??

 

[5th Sequence]

No. Multiband compression is good actually, depending on mix to mix i guess. It lets you compress certain frequencies at different amounts. You can compress a certain frequency range that is comming in really loud and leave another frequency range (typically highs) lightly compressed. If it was just regular compression, you may have a thundering snare drum that causes your whole mix to get compressed (almost pumping). Hi's and lows, everything would get compressed along the way because of the snare drum. This can certainly ruin a track if the other frequencies are fine just as they are but are getting compressed anyways.

 

[Elementree]

thankx 5th, what are some good settings for attack and a way to leave the highs uncompressed. I usually just tweak knobs until I think the mix sounds right

 

[5th Sequence]

It depends on how many bands you have in your multiband compressor. If you want to leave the high's uncompressed or lightly compressed than you would have a lower threshold and a lower ratio (say -12 threshold and 3:1 compression). Thats a very general example, but you'd look at how the threshold compresses the high frequencies. If it's compressing the higher frequencies too much than you can lower the ratio or the threshold. I don't even know which one you would do, I just mess with it and try different settings that are in the ballpark.

I find that having a lower threshold on higher frequencies is great for compressing the really loud part of a snare that bleeds into those higher frequencies. Having the lower threshold allows the normal hihats and cymbals whatever to come through or not get compressed as much but ever time that snare comes in it gets compressed. Great way to level it out.

I'm not too sure on specific attack times, but generally you want them to be somewhat fast. anywhere from 4 to 50ms. I don't know if thats a good starting point or not, hopefully someone will come in and correct me if i'm wrong but thats what I generally use. Just make sure that whatever settings you use, your not clipping at any stage in the process. The clipping introduces bad distortion. I've ruined a really good track by this process so definitely watch for clipping.

 

[Elementree]

thanks bro, helps out alot!!!

 

[sYgMa]

Since a lot of question about compression are one that thread...

what should be "ceiling" of my samples. In other words, what should be the maximum volume of each individual sound. My guess is that it's the beatmaker's choice in a sense, but I'm sure there are some general specs...

Also (but I'm guessing both questions are related) who do you set your compression ratio...

 

[5th Sequence]

The ceiling depends. If your doing a final mix (like this is the last process before it goes to cd) than you'd use a limiter which is sort of like a compressor. It doesn't let anything pass a certain point so you can put your ceiling to like -0.2db or something, right next to -0db. Theres really no rules for a ceiling but to get higher quality and less noise ratio its a good idea to get the ceiling decently high. Anywhere from -10db and up i'd guess. If you're getting your song mastered (like you made the beat, someone bought it and they are intending to get it mastered) than you'd want to leave about -3db of space on all of your tracks. This way the mastering engineers who know what their doing can really make your stuff sound good. If you use a brickwall limiter that cuts off the signal at -.2 db then there is nothing mastering can do to enhance the mix. Theres no headroom or play. Make sure you talk to the people that buy the beats so you know what is the best way to deliver it. If their like most people, they'll buy the beat and use it as it is or take the seperated tracks and mix it themselves. You wouldnt have to worry about leaving the -3db space in this case, but ask about mastering.

 

[sYgMa]

I wanted to ask about that too, but what about each individual sound... should the headroom be the same for a kick and a guitar? or a snare? or a sample? I know that, depending on the beat you do, those values would change, but is there a standard for, let's say... a hard track or a acoustic track... etc...

 

[5th Sequence]

You basically want to capture as much of the sample as you can so you have more of the sample itself to work with. you may have a kick with its ceiling at -2db and your guitar at -3db. It doesn't matter, they can be anywhere. You may find that your hats are much lower at -15db or something. it varies from instrument to instrument, but you use your mixer and various mixing skills and effects to put each instrument in the spot you want it to go. Don't mix your tracks by putting all the instruments up to the max loudness or to a high db. You want them recorded that high so you have the quality and headroom you need but once you get down to mixing dont be affraid to mix sounds out if their too loud or bring them up if their not comming through in the mix.

You may have your hihat with -5db ceiling but you'll turn down its fader so it sits under the mix slightly so it still guides the track. If you had a really quite sample for your hat to begin with than you might not even touch the fader because it's fine where its at.

 

[Hypnotist]

I wanted to ask about that too, but what about each individual sound... should the headroom be the same for a kick and a guitar? or a snare? or a sample? I know that, depending on the beat you do, those values would change, but is there a standard for, let's say... a hard track or a acoustic track... etc...

dB levels are all relative values, comparatively to other audio signals in your mix. Trust your ears first, your eyes second. Mix it so it SOUNDS good, not LOOKS good. Don't worry about the dB levels until you have your mix pretty much squared away. While you mix, use the meters for reference, to make sure nothing is clipping. (If you're using Pro Tools, make sure that you have "Pre-Fader Metering" turned off so that you see post-fader results on your meters for each track).

Here's what I do when my mix is pretty much done: For hip hop, I make sub mixes, and if it's simple, it's usually BeatSub and VoxSub. I usually keep between 5-8 dB of headroom on each sub mix, and the beat vs. the vocals are usually pretty close, but the beat tends to hit closer to 0 dB with kicks and snares, while the vocals are usually pretty level at this point. While both of these tracks have so much headroom, the master fader meter shows me less headroom, as the both sub mixes contribute. Let me know if you need help with what a sub mix is.

If you're getting your song mastered (like you made the beat, someone bought it and they are intending to get it mastered) than you'd want to leave about -3db of space on all of your tracks. This way the mastering engineers who know what their doing can really make your stuff sound good. If you use a brickwall limiter that cuts off the signal at -.2 db then there is nothing mastering can do to enhance the mix. Theres no headroom or play. Make sure you talk to the people that buy the beats so you know what is the best way to deliver it. If their like most people, they'll buy the beat and use it as it is or take the seperated tracks and mix it themselves. You wouldnt have to worry about leaving the -3db space in this case, but ask about mastering.

Yea, mastering suites HATE it when people squash the hell out of a signal with compression on the master fader. Most places will tell you not to limit/maximize/finalize/compress your mix at all.

Overcompression is really often nowadays, especially on an amateur level. Anything online, I always expect to hear slight distortion and no dynamic range. There are too many people who literally throw a mix together, then think that if they put a Ultramaximizer or compressor on the stereo bus, it will sound like gold.

I'll probably say this a thousand times on this forum: MIX the song first until it sounds good with NO compression on the stereo bus. If you have 3 dB of headroom (or less) and you have some minor snares popping out of your mix (red clipping indicator is winking at you from time to time) then automate your snare so that it doesn't do it at those certain times. (You'll notice that it will be times when there is a snare, a loud vocal, a guitar, and bass note that all hit at one time or something). Now that you have your mix, you're finally ready to put compression across the stereo bus, and limit the song. This never used to be the case, as people actually mixed it loud. Recently, producers have been in battles to see who can make the loudest song to be played on the radio. This sucks, because most of these songs become tiring, because your ears don't hear anything natural about them. Air molecules don't stay one cm from your ear and keep compressing and rarefacting next to your ear. Sound just doesn't do that. Sound moves around a room and bounces off shit, then tails out and decays into all living matter and the atoms around us. So I'll say it again... Mix the damn thing FIRST, and THEN compress. Mix, Compress, Mix, Compress. Say it wit me now. j/k

Hypno

 

[5th Sequence]

So hipnotist, you only use compression on your masterbus? Not individual tracks? I've seen the arguements go for both sides but I go with what I know sounds best to me personally. I add compression to damn near everything. I get a the presence and punch that I'm looking for be it drums or samples, anything. Yeah, everything is louder but I feel it goes hand in hand with hip hop music. I'm definitely definitely not saying to overcompress things but it does add clarity. You seem like you know what your talkin about I just want to hear your reasoning.

 

[sYgMa]

mix compress mix compress mix compress...

Damn... I've been looking all over for infos about compression and, now, it finally makes sense!!! Thanks a lot.

Lil question... when you say "mixing" => just the faders?! Cuz I thought mixing was putting EQ, compression, reverb and the whole nine on a single track...

 

[Hypnotist]

So hipnotist, you only use compression on your masterbus? Not individual tracks? I've seen the arguements go for both sides but I go with what I know sounds best to me personally. I add compression to damn near everything. I get a the presence and punch that I'm looking for be it drums or samples, anything. Yeah, everything is louder but I feel it goes hand in hand with hip hop music. I'm definitely definitely not saying to overcompress things but it does add clarity. You seem like you know what your talkin about I just want to hear your reasoning.

No. I use compression three, maybe four times, if I'm in charge of tracking the session as well.

I compress right after the mic pre when going in to Pro Tools/2" tape/DA-88/etc, then while mixing I compress the actual track, I may even compress a group of tracks (sub mix) and THEN I compress on the stereo bus.

I'm not saying I don't compress the hell out of it. I was mostly referring to people who just "throw it through a compressor cuz it sounds better". And most of the things I was talking about in my last post were strictly about stereo compression. I was basically saying that there are a lot of people who turn the stereo compression on from the beginning of their mix as their process. I'm saying that you should turn it off while you level, pan, send, return, automate, solo, mute, and "mix" your song. THEN, when you actually HAVE a mix, you use the stereo compression to give it a slight boost.

If you don't, then you're allowing your compressor/limiter/maximizer/finalizer to "mix" the record for you. If you didn't have a mix ready before turning it on, then something that stands out in the mix just limits the hell out of everything else. Your snare is affecting your vocals is affecting your guitars is affecting your hi hats. Stereo compression links everything together to where your ears play tricks on you and you don't know WHAT is going on. If you're making a mix and you turn the stereo compressor off, and it sounds like SHIT, then you DON'T have a mix. That's all I was saying.

mix compress mix compress mix compress...

Damn... I've been looking all over for infos about compression and, now, it finally makes sense!!! Thanks a lot.

Lil question... when you say "mixing" => just the faders?! Cuz I thought mixing was putting EQ, compression, reverb and the whole nine on a single track...

You're precisely correct. Mixing means doing everything, and ending up with a listenable final result. But I was talking about mixing without the master stereo compression first, that's all, and "having a mix" before you compress.

Sorry I was so vague. I was just adding to 5th's question when I rambled about that one.

Peace.

 

[5th Sequence]

ah I got you, that's what I thought you were saying in the first place lol.