Clearing Samples (for the underground artist)

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slik da relic

RS Jedi
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
the industry aint chasin cats with only a few thousand record sales... its not worth their time to waste money chasin small fry... there is a threshold u hafta reach b4 they take notice... 100,000... 250,000... 500,000... i dont knot for sure, each company could be different, but u got to sell some units... its a double edged sword... u mite blow up and get ur foot in the door with that sampled hit with a major artist, but havent made not a cent off it... bottom line is, u got ur foot in tha door, now u must have the confidence and skills to make another hit... thats why u keep grindin them out.

da relic
 

slik da relic

RS Jedi
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
yep... there's no guarantee u wont be heard eventually... the hardest part of listenin to loops is usin them... they can sound too good to ignore and chop... thats a big mistake by us "lil people"... samplin loops and choppin them is 4ever out of my head... in order to beat the industry at their own game, u gotta leave loops alone, and start choppin a twistin bits n peices of ANYTHING 2gether and creatin some new shit that cant be traced back to the original... its not hard to do, ive been doin it for years now... it requires more work, but its much more fulfillin to me... once uve mastered that, loops wont even be thought of... plus u will look at more parts of a record, instead of just the beginning, the break, and the end.

da relic
 

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
THIS POST IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

1. If your song w/uncleared sample is not profitable you will generally not be pursued by the copyright owner for the usage of the sample.

If you are a signed artist or are about to have the song released on a real record label there are a couple options:

1. Don't clear the sample because the artist that owns the copyright will initially ask for too much. Release the song - get sued and settle. Use the record sales from your album as leverage to bring down the percentage you have to pay. For example: 50 Cent releases a song with an uncleared sample. Copyright owner sues. 50 Cent can negotiate DOWN the percentage he has to pay to the copyright owner if:

A. The copyright owner is not really making money off their copyright.
B. The copyright owner would have a large windfall of money through any association with 50 Cent.

Inversely, the copyright owner has the artist by the balls because:
1. It costs a lot of money to change the printing on a CD.
2. The song is already "out there" - pulling it would hurt the artist.

It can go both ways. Usually the copyright owner capitulates, especially if they know they'd get a windfall of money. The artist that uses the sample wins because they can negotiate a lower rate.

In any case, if we are looking at the ARTIST that did not clear the sample, I have been in the same room where someone (an artist's manager said:)

"Shit, we should've let them sue us. Now they want too much and we can't clear the sample."
What was the situation?:
1. A potential great single for a major label.
2. Used an uncleared sample from a very well known 80's rock group.
3. Sample clearinghouse was called. Artist's rep wanted 70% of the song's publishing in order to clear the sample.
4. That was too much money to give up on a potential hit single. The manager called in musicians to re-record the sample with live musicians.
5. The idea was that the sample being re-recorded by pro-musicians would be an "interpolation" - the artist could then charge only 20-40% or less for the interpolation.
6. The recorded interpolation did not sound as good as the sample, and took away from the song.
7. The manager called/emailed telling the clearinghouse that the artist was going to do an interpolation. He wants to use the sample though. Can the copyright owner bring it down from 70%? Clearinghouse called the manager's bluff - basically told him to fuck himself.
8. Thus, it was decided to scrap the entire song. This was the best song on the rapper's album.

I said to dumbass manager after I heard the recorded interpolation: "The song is good- pay the 70 and you'll get publishing from the rest of the album. This song will be your loss leader. Your artist needs to "break in" with a single like this."

The manager - being an idiot, nixed the idea. I countered: "30 percent of something is a lot better than 60 percent of nothing, which is what the interpolation is. _____ needs this single, just give up the money for potential success in the long run."

The artist saw my reasoning agreed with me. The manager, probably because he was new and insecure - wanted to assert power, felt threatened by me talking against him, was greedy and X'ed out the idea.

The artist was dropped from the major label and the album was shelved. Reason? There wasn't a successful single on the album other than the song scrapped by the manager. This would've taken the cat into the top 40. Now, he's probably cursing at his manager.

The manager then said: "I shouldn't have called them. We should've let them sue us. Now they want too much." And he didn't release the single - he realized his error.

That's one story. The thing is, that artist's label could afford a lawsuit and the cost of negotiations. Most underground cats can't.

It's a fine line.
 

slik da relic

RS Jedi
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
yep... ive heard of these things as well... one of the reasons i avoid "recognizable" sample peices altogether... the producer of the trk will prolly make ZERO off the trk, but will have his foot in tha door for other endeavors.

as far as the manager, HE's tha manager!!! what's he listenin to YOU for???!!! he's lookin like he knows NOTHING, and YOU shouldve been the manager...lol... of course the ego and pride gets in tha way, and he fukked up.

bottomline: get ur foot in the door, and a buzz started... the buzz was there... but it was snuffed out b4 it got a chance to get legs.

da relic
 

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
as far as the manager, HE's tha manager!!! what's he listenin to YOU for???!!! he's lookin like he knows NOTHING, and YOU shouldve been the manager...lol... of course the ego and pride gets in tha way, and he fukked up.

I.
I agree with your statements wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, there are gifted artists who associate themselves with "representation/management" that is incompetent. These people are usually stakeholders in the artist in some way, friends of the artist, or have some leverage over the artist - they usually are from the artist's 'hood. They are difficult to deal with, make very bad decisions (due to their inexperience), and their egos hurt the artists. Some do not listen to sage advice, and it hurts everyone's pocketbooks.

In this case I am talking about- the artist is now a DJ doing bar mitzvahs and MC'ing on the side. The "manager", from what I heard - went back to the city they are from and opened a small hip-hop clothing store in his neighborhood.

II.
In this artist's situation - let's just say that people not agreeing with the manager - mostly the industry people involved in the project - tried to reason with the artist in order to get him to switch management from the new cat who was making bad-decisions to a reputable management company that has a good relationship with the label, his agent, and many other people in the music industry.

It was a no go. Let this be a lesson:

Watch out who is your representation. They can make or break you.
 

GRAFIK

Vinyl Addict
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
There is one way to get around this, manuplate your samples as much as possible, filtering, pitching, adding effects so there is no way to figure out where it came from... One day want to get to that point where I can pick up a record make a beat out of it and have my track sound NOTHING like it at all. I want them to be suprise that I sampled that song.....
 

slik da relic

RS Jedi
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
im 85-90% there, and once it doesnt sound like original, the few elements that might be there mite not be enuff to take u to court... also, takin samples from lil known groups is a great way of buildin beats... my portamento vid is a good example.

da relic
 
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