Bass Changes Kicks

[Jamal Malik]

Ok wassup everyone.......

First off: I'm not a newb. To hip-hop or music production

my setup: MG10/2 Mixer - 4 monitors (Boston Acoustics/Kenwood) - Walmart Woofer (shuddap it sounds good nigga) - Leopard - Logic - MPD - Edirol Keyboard

Word now HERES MY QUESTION:

why do certain bass tones (i always sample/filter, but use varying tones) change the tone of my kick?

here is a link to my SC.... http://www.soundclick.com/DJJamalMalik ....check out the beat called "Cuzza Lindz"....tell me what the fuck I am doing wrong with my mix please.

at the end of the beat you can here the piano and drums by themselves-- contrast that with the bassline in there

THANKS AS ALWAYS MY MELLOWS

ps - love this forum. yall the shit. and plus God posts here....lol don't tell the pope

 

[Shonsteez]

Jamal - I wasnt really hearing many bass frequencies represented when I was playing back your track so its a bit hard to determine whats happening to your kick without a reference to how it sounds on its own without the influence of other sources/tracks...but my guess is that if your kick sound is changing when your other samples play at the same time that contain similar bass frequencies - what could be happening is a slight phase cancelation.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Kick have like puedo notes, the frequencies that make up the kik sort of slip it into a note (sortof). long story short your kik and bass are off aka two different notes. tune the kik or remove frequencies untill it doesnt matter.

The last part is the kiks really bassy. The bass is also...bassy but also WAY louder than the kik. Its drowning out the kik. Try balancing the levels abit.

 

[hanayalator]

Ya I agree with what has been said. I think you turn down the bass a bit and the kick up a bit, and also make sure the kick is in key with the bass and overall chord structure of the song. Also, it may just be my ears, but I feel like the bass is a bit out of tune with the piano. I know they're probably playing the same notes, but depending on where you got each sample and if they're sped up or not, they can end up being a little out of tune.

H

 

[Jamal Malik]

haha

ya'll like the beat though??

nah nah but seriously

@ Shonsteez: I know what you mean. Sorta. I went through like a hundred bass drums before I picked this one. I think this is where I was making my mistakes. I liked the one I picked cause it was phat-- like thumping right and shit. I guess that means it's in a lower frequency range? So following that logic, my bass tone which is in a pretty high frequency for bass (no?) should sit in with the kick well.

Fhack! I dunno. Then I bump Preem and get depressed. hahaha I won't front......I'm trying to get the mix on my track to sound like this Dilated joint

< CLICK IT FOO' (how do you embed here...?)

when that stabby bass (lol like 'mine') hits with the kick its like an orgy of sound. how the fuck??!??!?!?!

It'd be great if you can explain phase cancellation in more detail, or more specifically, what I can do to stop it. should I start by picking a different kick? should i change the process of how i pick my kicks? do I really need to test each one I like, with meters and everything, before I throw it in Guru?

@ Unorthodox, Hanayaltor: Word. I'll mess wit it.

 

[Jamal Malik]

lol nvrmind about the embedding hahahahahah

 

[eldiablo]

i didnt notice anything major wrong with it. when you get some vocals over it, everything that was metioned wont matter, or be noticable. you should be able to edit the pitch and tone with whatever program you used to make it.


Phase Cancellation:
http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/glossary/t--PhaseCancellation

when working with kicks and basslines, they are in the same frequency range so of course they will adapt and change when putting them together. alot of times you have to manually go in and edit the 2 to make them work well with each other. otherwise we all would just be picking random sounds and throwing them together and hoping it sounds good.

 

[7thangel]

a couple of problems, your bass and kick aren't focused due to it's stereo spread, the choice of bass may not be the best one for your drums.

with this, personally (meaning what i would do, not a suggestion as others would do things different), after making both of them mono and after cutting below 25 hz (maybe even 30) from both and cutting low frequencies from the other stuff at various frequencies, i would further cut the kick from no less than 80 hz (possibly higher, hard to make a definitive answer from streaming audio) and do some other cuts and boost and give it a boost at 2k or something like that for point. the kick isn't the low end of the track, the bass is. eq the bass and lowering it's volume would also be something i would do.

ultimately i would use a sharper kick and still make sure that it isn't the low end of the track if i was using that bass, especially because it's the bass that's the focus and it's the bass that's driving the track. knowing what will be the focus and what will occupy the lower end from jump makes things easier

about that dilated track, notice the drum pattern and bass pattern, it's designed not to conflict with each other too much, the drums are simplified

either way, it's good to find out about masking, beats (not to be confused with our term for our tracks), phase, etc and how to combat it.

'modern recording techniques', 'The Mixing Engineer's Handbook', 'The Recording Engineer’s Handbook', youtube and other sites to learn would be my suggestion. another would be 'mixing with your mind' and tutorial dvds if you have the cash (or not)

 

[Jamal Malik]

damn yo

thank you all for real i learned a lot just now.......can you guys imagine learning from pete rock or someone? i mean...9th...kev brown....once were cats like us just making super raw tracks but damn...now....

anyways im going to remake this with everything ive learned

holla

 

[Jamal Malik]

lol illMuzik remix

thanks to everyone - specially shon, h, el d, 7th

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8624290

 

[Shonsteez]

Word, glad we could help Jamal...
Another thing you might delve into later once u start experimenting with frequency stacking and EQ is trying out sidechain compression with your kick and bass - that is if you have an actual bass track to sidechain to! (this doesnt always work so well if your effecting a sample with many other parts playing simultaneously for future reference). So when your kick hits each time you can effectively "duck" your bass line according to your compression settings which can also help make room for your kick and tame your bassline a little...keep in mind tho, this technique isnt always needed or useful in all applications.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

To piggy back: If you dont have a DAW that allows sidechaining look into a VST plugin called "Sidekick" by lemon____(something)