Art. What defines art? or an Artist?

[2GooD Productions]

Im sitting here pretty stoned and pondered this thought over rolling my just lit j.
You can say "What the fuck has this got to do with hiphop?!!", but I will get to that.
Im noticing a trend worldwide, not just with music, but with all forms of art being diluted into mediocrity where it is no longer art.
My definition of art is exceptional creativity.
An artist is exceptional in his/her field, be it sculpting, architechture, painting, creative writing, poetry, graffiti, breakdancing, dj'ing, making music or any of the creative pastimes.

Not all sculpting can be considered art IMO, nor can every painting, or book, etc.
No true art is created for monetary gain, its created to satisfy the artists desire to create something special.

We have the turner prize here in the uk where any old crap is given the name art and put on display to win a prize. It is a bit of a joke really, even though Im pretty sure its not meant to be. Every year it seems like they brainstorm what could be the most outrageous thing to tag the title art to.

I see the same with hiphop and music as a whole, the whole artistic process is being diluted. Anyone can be famous it doesnt take talent anymore, just enough of a desire to make money to compromise yourself. Either by being a controversial media whore/label whore/general whore(Paris Hilton comes to mind, as does Amy Winehouse). People are becoming famous for marrying someone famous(Paul Mcartneys recently divorced, I forget her name, I dont care to remember it), WAGS of footballers becoming famous just for marrying a footballer or going out with him. Famous for getting a boob job then displaying your self to the world in true whore style(Jordan, UK model).
Famous for rapping about totally fictitious lifestyles like a mantra to the kids.
Is it really any wonder the kids are growing up messed up when these talentless 'famous' people are their role models.
The exceptional has been taken away from the art, in the publics perception at least anyway, now anyone can be famous to the point that being famous isnt anything special, anything rooted in merit.
The best thing about being famous these days is getting constantly harrassed by paparazzi foaming at the mouth for an exclusive, normally at your expense.

I wrote this thread because I think the creativity of mankind is being stiffled by false dreams and fake realities leading our younger generations into oblivion through stagnation of original thought. This makes a perfect mind controlled slave for those that seek to dominate us mentally and do.

Hiphop is stagnating right now in my opinion, mainly due to whats being put on the plate. I dont really want to eat it. Ok Ill eat the EMC peas or the Madlib fries, but I sure as hell aint having the mainstream steak.

What the world needs is an injection of originality, hiphop needs to make its next evolutionary step.
The dirty south model has been run dry, IMO, it has been milked and fucked up the arse for every cent.
What hiphop needs is something new, the next big cash making bandwagon for the execs that make these things happen(the money men). What it needs is something exceptional, ART.

Illmuzik is a great place to start the search for the next exceptional original path for hiphop to take, its up to you the producers. Instead of recreating what has been we should be pushing the boundaries of what can be. Its the beatmakers that give the mc's their platform, used to be the dj's but thats another story, its up to us the producers to provide a solid platform and guide them into new territory. That defines an artist.

 

[Relic]

AAAAAWWWWWWW LAAAAaaaawwwwdd , who gave him the stuff??

As for the title of the thread I think it could be argued that "Art" is defined by those who observe it, thereby it is whatever whoever says it is, making it completely ambiguent and subjective at once.
Some of the paintings the "masters" did I think are crap , but they are old so I give em respect. Plus I cant paint at all.

Lots of art ,like you say, is garbage now adays. Somebody making a "thing" depicting jJesus, but made out of feces imo AINT art.
Its just shocking and offensive. If you ever watch hellraiser 3 I think, its 2 or 3 , at the end they show this big round thing that I guess is supposed to be the box, and its sitting in this city , well thats some art down the street from here, no one knows what its supposed to be , but it IS thought provoking.
This is a good topic, but I gotta go home, Ill come back to thisd after its been mutilated by soldier boy haters.

 

[Pug]

Haha, ya, art is very subjective, I don't even use that word anymore. I almost threw up when I had a teacher continually call themselves a "professional artist" when I was taking fine arts courses.. "No true art is created for monetary gain" is a big statement... some great works of art were created for monetary gain

 

[2GooD Productions]

AAAAAWWWWWWW LAAAAaaaawwwwdd , who gave him the stuff??

As for the title of the thread I think it could be argued that "Art" is defined by those who observe it, thereby it is whatever whoever says it is, making it completely ambiguent and subjective at once.

No thats the watered down definition. lol
That opens the door for them to call any old thing art.

I want to inspire originality in a bandwagon orientated world.

 

[Relic]

I agree but I added to it, and it IS the definition of art.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Haha, ya, art is very subjective, I don't even use that word anymore. I almost threw up when I had a teacher continually call themselves a "professional artist" when I was taking fine arts courses.. "No true art is created for monetary gain" is a big statement... some great works of art were created for monetary gain

By already established great original artists no less. Would they have been offered the paid work unless they had a proven greatness already?

I agree but I added to it, and it IS the definition of art.

Yeah I know, but I disagree with the definition so I burned my dictionaries, lol


whats amazing is how something can make such great sense when stoned but starts to not make so much sense when not stoned. Im going to roll another and ponder something else. I will keep the momentary madness to myself tho.

 

[Relic]

Yeah I know, but I disagree with the definition so I burned my dictionaries, lol


.

2Good is the type of Englishman that created the USA! lol
I dare say your more of an original american then some here now..
No offense

 

[2GooD Productions]

but werent the first americans actually English religious rejects? lol

america got the religious nuts and australia got the criminals canada got Fade.

 

[Relic]

SO what defines the Artist? What makes you go from dabbling on a canvas to being an Artist?
Is it making someone want to actually "Buy" your work?
Or was it just impressing your art teacher in grade school

 

[KurtisRich]

Any piece of work that catches my interest is art

 

[Relic]

True that, but as far as creating art..Quite sure I AM an Artist.
I have been doin this shit for so long and lost and gained so much.. Very interesting as a concept.

 

[afriquedeluxe]

i will differ and say man kind is at a creative high. Why? Because tools that were restricted to a select few, are now in the hands of many more that would not have had the privilege.

A lot of people knock Souljah Boy but I say what he did was very creative. Had it not been for Fruity Loops and Youtube, few would have heard his music. Today we are blessed with tools that have given birth to many great artists. Maybe it is because there are many more artists that many are not recognized or considered to be as "great". Where as before we had one person painting in a village, we now have a much greater number creating wonderful drawings in a fraction of the time it took the oldies, in applications such as Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop.

The same with music. To make a beat, in the old days you would need thousands of dollars. But now, there is free software available to all to make music. Now everyone is a producer, or at least beat maker.

Art, because of technology is experiencing a saturation of content. I am with 2good on the point that perhaps less effort is being put in these days, may be partly due to the ease and comfort technology has brought us. But all this means is that music is to be appreciated in a new way. For instance, some frown upon using loops, but what difference is there in hiring a percussionist to lay down some shakers and using some loop in Garageband. The big name producers see no difference, and use loops all the time, its cheaper! Besides, the general public will love the song no matter what, whilst only us musicians (i am guilty of this myself) raise an eye brow.

Hip Hop is very much alive and not stagnant. What is astounding to me is that fact that it has become an integral part of music as a whole. Just about everything I hear these days has a touch of "hiphop". HipHop is growing into other cultures and fusing with other genres. To me this represents the greatest time, ever for hiphop.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[Sincock]

Hmmm, I certainly agree with the general thrust of what you're saying 2Good but Relic is basically right. The intent to create art or the perception of something as art is what defines something as art or not. What you're talking about is BAD ART. Just because it's "art" doesn't mean it's good and yes the mainstream, purely for monetary gain and fame, crap isn't art because nobody meant it to be and it isn't recognised as such.

 

[Relic]

Hmmm, I certainly agree with the general thrust of what you're saying 2Good but Relic is basically right. The intent to create art or the perception of something as art is what defines something as art or not. What you're talking about is BAD ART. Just because it's "art" doesn't mean it's good and yes the mainstream, purely for monetary gain and fame, crap isn't art because nobody meant it to be and it isn't recognised as such.

And yet there are "crap snobs" that decide what is art out of the crap..

Art initially was prolly the combined concept as a culture put into visual form.

Now its sonic form,...actually.. now getting worldly..which is gonna be tuff..

if you want to be forward thinking, transform an mpc into a thing that creates scents in the same way as music evokes emotions, then you will control those peeps..

BUT woa unto your "sound man".. as the inscence set up will be a bitch.

 

[deedzstreet]

I personally feel art is in the eye of the beholder since it is his/her emotion and work put into whatever it may-b whether you paint make beats play an instrument sing etc, etc and then from that point on what another person sees is there reflection of the meaning of your master piece what im trying to say i guess is art is a universal way of expressing your emotions so as long as you have done so i feel it can be classified as art and when everything you do is based on this principal then you truly are an artist

 

[Formant024]

Here's some food for though, Stephen Wiltshire, art or not...

http://www.stephenwiltshire.co.uk/gallery.aspx

 

[Sincock]

Here's some food for though, Stephen Wiltshire, art or not...

http://www.stephenwiltshire.co.uk/gallery.aspx

oh yeah it's art: exceedingly dull and uninspired but still art.

 

[2GooD Productions]

I think that when I had my first stoned idea about the whole thing I sort of blurred the difference between art and great art. Sincock was right I was talking about bad art, as well as the nature of fame these days. I was trying to also make a point about fame used to be earned and not a result of who your are related to, or who you marry or who you show your tits to. There was a time where being famous was an achievement. I sort of mixed up two arguments in one and didnt really portray either very well.
I also agree with Afriquedeluxe's argument, the technology that has allowed anyone to be a potential artist has made art in more abundance than it has ever been. And yes when looked at from that point of view I can only agree that creativity is enjoying a great explosion. My argument on this point was that the true exceptional art, was being lost in amongst an ocean of mediocrity. The finding of great art is made boring by having to wade through so much not so great art. This idea was based on my experience on forums where everyone is seeking acceptance for their music(art) and most of what I hear is so bad, it gives the great art a bad name.
Newbies saying things like "The hottest beat this year" just makes a mockery of the artform.
I have also come across some extremely talented people online, true great artists. But these artists dont get their shine because the market is so flooded with mediocrity. An education isnt important to kids anymore, because they dont need an education, they can do one of a few things play sports, become a singer/rapper, marry a celeb you get my drift.
The bar of acheivement has been lowered so much that the realm of exceptional doesnt get a look in and the kids dont aspire to be exceptional as there is no need to be exceptional as slightly above average will do.
In my lifetime I have seen a rapid decline in the moral standards and aspirations of our youth. To the point that kids these days dont give a shit, they have no ambitions, they can just sell drugs and hustle a living.
The young generation is in dire need of ambition and seeking to be the best they can be, not just get by at others expense. I think the world is still in need of originality and it is the youth that should be on the comeup.
Im getting old now as are many of the members here, my time to shine will soon be over. But to be honest, Im really worried about who we are handing the torch to. Knife crime is escalating in london to epidemic proportions with seven people stabbed in one day last week. Kids have no respect for life or even themselves, they have no idea of actions=consequences. Now the govt is saying they want to punish parents for the actions of their children. This is ridiculous as the parents are forced to work long days just to pay the bill, kids get most of their life skills from school, their mates and from the streets. Parents dont have the chance to bring up their children these days, more so the hard up single parents that have to work otherwise live a crap life, and not be able to provide for their own kids. Its the schools that need to be looked at, thats where kids spend most of their time, the rest is spent watching tv/films, playing computer games(more so these days) and listening to music, or on the street getting into trouble as kids always will do, they are kids for fucks sake.
Back to the art, if art is in such abundance then so shouldnt the great art? im not hearing it on the radio, im not seeing it on the reruns on tv, im not seeing it in the latest movie remake, nor am I seeing it in the lastest shootem up. Or latest version of the same old game. This is where the kids are getting there ideas, and none of these media types are original, nothings really pushing any boundaries with the very odd exception of course.

On the subject of hiphop, what do kids aspire to be? Drug dealing, gang banging, ho banging mc's. Why because thats the picture of success they are currently given in hiphop.

I want to raise the aspirations of our youth, and then give them the ability to create.
Not give them the ability to just try and be someone else because they were successful that way. Thus creating a million clones but nothing original. Its about quality over quantity. Hiphop used to really be pushing the boundaries, musically and lyrically, new scratches and break dancing wise and even graffiti.
Nowadays its not about content but about the catchy hook. The art is lost.
Kids really need to aspire to greatness and try to be better than the rest, not just like the rest.

 

[Relic]

oh yeah it's art: exceedingly dull and uninspired but still art.

LMAO!

 

[Formant024]

^^^ ok, its not food for thought then, the artist has no intention or awareness of his "work" being art due to his savant condition though it is considered art by critics. It says more about the proper definition of art from a philosophical point of view (lol).