Barbie Beats
Banned
Is analog really a dying art? What do u use? Why? Pros and cons to using either analog or digital? Thoughts. Gripes. Memories.
Analog Vs Digital
- Thread starter Barbie Beats
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Formant024
Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
No its not dying, but its expensive to maintain quality from a to b., if you buy a top of the line Nuemann mic and you have a budget preamp and ditto cables you have the wrong priorities. Such upgrades bring more expenses than just the one part of the chain. Also channel count, more hardware means you need more I/O. When it concerns high end hardware then you want more high end i/o etc etc. Its these things that make analog less favorable but imo, its still the better choice.
Analog still sits among the best quality but its not affordable (some digital isnt affordable either i.e Weiss).
In the virtual domain its imo best to have both since there are things you cant achieve in analog yet analog (imo) always has a far more convincing sound. And with having both i mean to record hardware and to process/sample in the daw.
Also, in some occasions the virtual isnt as proper to one's workflow where dedicated functions are hands on yet this is personal preference for what some dont know about they really wont mis.
I dont mean to bring hit and mis remarks here but imo, the average beatcreator wont be bothered untill the learningcurve is over and the interest into mixing/mastering comes into play. Mostly then people will be looking good suite of plugins, combined with the best analog outboard you can afford (and all that comes with it). At that point you'll be looking at entry grade outboard stuff like Mohog mofet76, distressors, api2500, A-Designs Hammer eq's, Foote ps3 mastering comp <- good stuff for mixing ($1000 and up / unit) and mastering ( $2000 and up/ unit).
If you consider the investment than you understand why a lot of people say it is dying since most people are really not willing to spend such cash in order to make proper hiphop (or whatever). Which is fine, its not for everyone so if you start out, start out digital/virtual/itb and the majority will leave it at that.
Analog still sits among the best quality but its not affordable (some digital isnt affordable either i.e Weiss).
In the virtual domain its imo best to have both since there are things you cant achieve in analog yet analog (imo) always has a far more convincing sound. And with having both i mean to record hardware and to process/sample in the daw.
Also, in some occasions the virtual isnt as proper to one's workflow where dedicated functions are hands on yet this is personal preference for what some dont know about they really wont mis.
I dont mean to bring hit and mis remarks here but imo, the average beatcreator wont be bothered untill the learningcurve is over and the interest into mixing/mastering comes into play. Mostly then people will be looking good suite of plugins, combined with the best analog outboard you can afford (and all that comes with it). At that point you'll be looking at entry grade outboard stuff like Mohog mofet76, distressors, api2500, A-Designs Hammer eq's, Foote ps3 mastering comp <- good stuff for mixing ($1000 and up / unit) and mastering ( $2000 and up/ unit).
If you consider the investment than you understand why a lot of people say it is dying since most people are really not willing to spend such cash in order to make proper hiphop (or whatever). Which is fine, its not for everyone so if you start out, start out digital/virtual/itb and the majority will leave it at that.
Barbie Beats
Banned
Thanx so much for the full, informative reply! I might be one of few freaks that usually runs digital but just recently started getting into Analog...kinda backwards. One of my brothers produces as well and his music is much more boom bap underground style and he attributes analog to that almost grittier sound. I think this topic is just like DAW vs MPC in that u have ppl that either hate it or love it, nothing in between. My more underground friends can't understand why I don't just solely use my MPC, truthfully I think that if u want to be able to create the best u need to be able to afford it...and be willing to pay for it. I think having ALL forms of production at your disposal can only be beneficial, especially with hip hop. I will say that I don't think it's a dying art form but I absolutely think it is exactly that....an art form. 
Formant024
Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
Its not just you, a lot of people sell of their gear and go completly itb and later come back to hardware but learned what gear they want. In such case you rarely see those people buying into budget gear but start by getting 1 single good and expensive piece of gear, mostly something that isnt done aswell in the digital domain or adds a very specific character (or more).
I dont get it, why is the mpc considered "underground" ? Is there really any gear thats mainstream and commercial ? Its the beatmaker and his style that makes it this way, not the gear.
I bought my 2 mpc2kxl's when they were just released to make techno/acid live sets. I was also doing hiphop back then and mostly and completly itb using fasttracker II instead but my motivation to purchase the mpc's wasnt related to hiphop.
I think it takes a while to realise and pinpoint what motivates people to buy gear. You jump on the bandwagon at first then perhaps afterwards wonder why you bought certain stuff or later learn that the most important things you need arent the things you bought in the first place. If i knew what i know now, i wouldve started buying different gear 25 years ago and mostly likely would not be starting synths and samplers, but the stuff we now call classic vintage outboard (neve,siemens, telefunken) and propers monitors. I mean, ive spent a lot over those years, if i could spend it all again....
I dont get it, why is the mpc considered "underground" ? Is there really any gear thats mainstream and commercial ? Its the beatmaker and his style that makes it this way, not the gear.
I bought my 2 mpc2kxl's when they were just released to make techno/acid live sets. I was also doing hiphop back then and mostly and completly itb using fasttracker II instead but my motivation to purchase the mpc's wasnt related to hiphop.
I think it takes a while to realise and pinpoint what motivates people to buy gear. You jump on the bandwagon at first then perhaps afterwards wonder why you bought certain stuff or later learn that the most important things you need arent the things you bought in the first place. If i knew what i know now, i wouldve started buying different gear 25 years ago and mostly likely would not be starting synths and samplers, but the stuff we now call classic vintage outboard (neve,siemens, telefunken) and propers monitors. I mean, ive spent a lot over those years, if i could spend it all again....
God
Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
In this day and age, unless you have the money and expertise in using analog equipment -- it's best to stick with digital.
Personally, I think bouncing your track from digital to tape during the mixing or pre-mastering makes the sound "warmer."
Also, it's a pain in the butt to go back to cutting tape and punching in takes. Stuff is just so much easier with digital these days and average music listener can't tell the difference anyway.
The only problem with digital is that everyone seems to use the same samples. So everything sounds the same. Change it up a bit.
Personally, I think bouncing your track from digital to tape during the mixing or pre-mastering makes the sound "warmer."
Also, it's a pain in the butt to go back to cutting tape and punching in takes. Stuff is just so much easier with digital these days and average music listener can't tell the difference anyway.
The only problem with digital is that everyone seems to use the same samples. So everything sounds the same. Change it up a bit.
Barbie Beats
Banned
Sorry Formant I didn't see this! Hey look God is talking to me again
Basically I think that analog only matters to a certain breed of producer, the serious ones. If u have a love for the way music is made you've probably dabbled in both...if ur into cranking out club bangers I doubt you've paid any attention to using analog. What I'm trying to say is, cool ppl know how to use analog. I have a dual setup that I plan on keeping, it can't hurt. I'm blessed that money really isn't an issue or I probably woulda never started the switch in the first place.
P.S. About the MPCs being underground...honestly the only ppl I know that r religious about them are ppl that aren't trying to make mainstream music for the masses, they're talented intelligent folk who are in love with hip hop. You're not gunna catch a trap artist attempting to use one....and I wouldn't have it any other way
Basically I think that analog only matters to a certain breed of producer, the serious ones. If u have a love for the way music is made you've probably dabbled in both...if ur into cranking out club bangers I doubt you've paid any attention to using analog. What I'm trying to say is, cool ppl know how to use analog. I have a dual setup that I plan on keeping, it can't hurt. I'm blessed that money really isn't an issue or I probably woulda never started the switch in the first place.
P.S. About the MPCs being underground...honestly the only ppl I know that r religious about them are ppl that aren't trying to make mainstream music for the masses, they're talented intelligent folk who are in love with hip hop. You're not gunna catch a trap artist attempting to use one....and I wouldn't have it any other way
Greg Savage
Ehh Fuck you
ill o.g.
Haven't seen once of these threads in a while.. Allow me to give you the skinny from a sound designers perspective. I mimic sound for a living.
The only hardware that matters is your signal chain.
My setup is posted here somewhere, I've used/owned just about every piece of gear out there, and trust me you're not missing much.
I like to stay in the box because it's faster and portable. I still have my older equipment, but only take it out when I'm bored.
People will tell you analog sounds cannot be recreated, that's a load a shit. What these people means to say is “I'm not skilled enough to recreate it, nor do I have the proper setup to do so”
Analog has a unique sound. I'm mainly talking about preamps, processors and synth based units. There are a few samplers out there that are just crazy.
Imperfections and A/D converters are what make analog special. Most people who are trying to emulate older gear are using very clean near perfect converters, then trying to dirty up the signal, that doesn't always work.
There are also rules... You can clip in analog and it sounds lovely... The sound rolls off the sides. That's a no no in the digital world and most people don't know how to compensate for that.
Then you have people who are confused on what Analog truly is. Some will will look at an openlabs niko or meko and called that analog gear... No
The only analog I use in my setup is a Channel strip, furman and delta 1010 soundcard mics etc, the signal chain.
Channel strips killed big studios. They allow you to achieve a console sound without owning a huge console.
Truth is people go gaga over analog because... well it looks cool, but half of them can't tell the difference between a signal processed through an Avalon/Grace vs being tweaked via EQ. Hell a lot of pros can't pick out a Neve vs SSL processing unless they've spent YEARS and I mean YEARS on those boards.
People stick with hardware because it's what they've learned on and it works for them they have no reason to move out of their space.
Now I'd like to comment on the comment of “Serious people use hardware'. That couldn't be any further from the truth. If you pay attention to most of the Grammy award winning and nominated composers... a lot of them are 40-60 years of age and have moved from hardware.
These some of the most dedicated producers in the music business.
Now, let's talk about education and influence (marketing) This is another reason why hardware or analog just seems superior.. And please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I love analog (and software), but people purchase both for the wrong reasons.
Endorsements are truly misleading. You see someone use an MPC and their music is nice it makes you feel as if you have to use an MPC in order to get the same level of quality. I remember seeing premo working with MPC REN and he was all gegeek-ed about it's features
Yet those features have been in other applications and boxes for years, he just didn't pay attention to them until they were introduced on the Mpc platform.
I've done sound design for a lot of big companies out there. I remember once at namm an akai rep was showing off a 2500. People liked the sounds that were packed inside, a few guys swore they were processed through an mpc 60. Truth be told, I did everything in Reason.
Recorded the 1 shots through a cheap preamp imported into reason and went from there, no outside processing past the preamp. Now had those same sounds been presented on a software medium, the reaction may have been different.
You can create a thin sound on a MOOG and a warm/big sound on a piece of software and ask an experienced engineer which is software vs hardware and most of the time he'll tell you “I'm not sure”
Your average composer/producer will claim the thin sound comes from a software because they relate analog and hardware to thick and warm and software to thin.
Last example. I remember working with a guy on a Foley project and he was upset because his mic wasn't giving him the same result as an older Nuemann he had used at another studio. So do you know what his answer to this problem was?
He went out ans spent $5000 for a Nuemann. Had this man looked at the specs of both mics he would have known that he could have cut his highs and gotten a warmer sound thus getting him closer to that Nuemann. His mic pushed extra highs purposely.
The same thing happens in gear vs software debates, the people debating really don't understand the mechanics behind the sound they like, they just know → 'when I hit play everything sounds good'
If they knew exactly what was going on they'd be able to get same results (on most things).
Look at these workstations, expensive! Sounds are plush! The sounds sound good because they were recorded and processed well. I've done a lot of workstation patches for various companies and people just assume the unit is doing something magical.
What's crazy is people are willing to spend $3000 and up for a workstation when the same exact sounds are in software bundles for $200-500 ← can't rat out which companies do this, but they've been doing it for years and are partnered with many vst/au companies.
Again I'm not against hardware, I'm for anything that gets the job done. What I am against is ignorance. I feel if you're going to fight and stand for something you should know why and how it does what it does.
The only hardware that matters is your signal chain.
My setup is posted here somewhere, I've used/owned just about every piece of gear out there, and trust me you're not missing much.
I like to stay in the box because it's faster and portable. I still have my older equipment, but only take it out when I'm bored.
People will tell you analog sounds cannot be recreated, that's a load a shit. What these people means to say is “I'm not skilled enough to recreate it, nor do I have the proper setup to do so”
Analog has a unique sound. I'm mainly talking about preamps, processors and synth based units. There are a few samplers out there that are just crazy.
Imperfections and A/D converters are what make analog special. Most people who are trying to emulate older gear are using very clean near perfect converters, then trying to dirty up the signal, that doesn't always work.
There are also rules... You can clip in analog and it sounds lovely... The sound rolls off the sides. That's a no no in the digital world and most people don't know how to compensate for that.
Then you have people who are confused on what Analog truly is. Some will will look at an openlabs niko or meko and called that analog gear... No
The only analog I use in my setup is a Channel strip, furman and delta 1010 soundcard mics etc, the signal chain.
Channel strips killed big studios. They allow you to achieve a console sound without owning a huge console.
Truth is people go gaga over analog because... well it looks cool, but half of them can't tell the difference between a signal processed through an Avalon/Grace vs being tweaked via EQ. Hell a lot of pros can't pick out a Neve vs SSL processing unless they've spent YEARS and I mean YEARS on those boards.
People stick with hardware because it's what they've learned on and it works for them they have no reason to move out of their space.
Now I'd like to comment on the comment of “Serious people use hardware'. That couldn't be any further from the truth. If you pay attention to most of the Grammy award winning and nominated composers... a lot of them are 40-60 years of age and have moved from hardware.
These some of the most dedicated producers in the music business.
Now, let's talk about education and influence (marketing) This is another reason why hardware or analog just seems superior.. And please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I love analog (and software), but people purchase both for the wrong reasons.
Endorsements are truly misleading. You see someone use an MPC and their music is nice it makes you feel as if you have to use an MPC in order to get the same level of quality. I remember seeing premo working with MPC REN and he was all gegeek-ed about it's features
Yet those features have been in other applications and boxes for years, he just didn't pay attention to them until they were introduced on the Mpc platform.
I've done sound design for a lot of big companies out there. I remember once at namm an akai rep was showing off a 2500. People liked the sounds that were packed inside, a few guys swore they were processed through an mpc 60. Truth be told, I did everything in Reason.
Recorded the 1 shots through a cheap preamp imported into reason and went from there, no outside processing past the preamp. Now had those same sounds been presented on a software medium, the reaction may have been different.
You can create a thin sound on a MOOG and a warm/big sound on a piece of software and ask an experienced engineer which is software vs hardware and most of the time he'll tell you “I'm not sure”
Your average composer/producer will claim the thin sound comes from a software because they relate analog and hardware to thick and warm and software to thin.
Last example. I remember working with a guy on a Foley project and he was upset because his mic wasn't giving him the same result as an older Nuemann he had used at another studio. So do you know what his answer to this problem was?
He went out ans spent $5000 for a Nuemann. Had this man looked at the specs of both mics he would have known that he could have cut his highs and gotten a warmer sound thus getting him closer to that Nuemann. His mic pushed extra highs purposely.
The same thing happens in gear vs software debates, the people debating really don't understand the mechanics behind the sound they like, they just know → 'when I hit play everything sounds good'
If they knew exactly what was going on they'd be able to get same results (on most things).
Look at these workstations, expensive! Sounds are plush! The sounds sound good because they were recorded and processed well. I've done a lot of workstation patches for various companies and people just assume the unit is doing something magical.
What's crazy is people are willing to spend $3000 and up for a workstation when the same exact sounds are in software bundles for $200-500 ← can't rat out which companies do this, but they've been doing it for years and are partnered with many vst/au companies.
Again I'm not against hardware, I'm for anything that gets the job done. What I am against is ignorance. I feel if you're going to fight and stand for something you should know why and how it does what it does.
Formant024
Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
^^ it is though, and as greg somewhat pointed out, you can make do with less high end gear if you know how to work it. Its cool if you have a lot of money but you're still a fool to solve your error with a piece of gear that would fix your problem. Granted, some mics sometimes dont work out, but it has nothing to do with the pricetag or legacy of such a product.
here the thing for me with analog; it does sound better considering all the pieces have their own signature sound opposed to everything sound like your converters. Plugin's can provide features you cant obtain in the analog domain (if so, its mad expensive), i think those plugs are valuable, stuff like Rob Paapen's Blade are truly unique.
I dont bother about wether or not people could recognize the difference, but its like a palette of colours working on a canvas. Is it relevant to score ? No, but some people do know the differences and set out their preferences that way and others are not willing to go that route because it is expensive to gain the same amount of options (not to mention the amount and quality of i/o you need).
Second, hand's on control. Buttons, knobs and whatnot for dedicated features result to a more intuitive approach on synths, outboard and also mpc's and the likes. If i dont need to look at the screen it means i'm using my ears better. On the creative side, im using synth better when theyre analog, its intuitive and often so much i dont even use a sequencer or use automation. Having 10 fingers to play and tweak with one machine is really something else and i know i can use my midi controllers to gain the same hands on control but the reality is that you dont have enough knobs or those knobs arent as logical as knowing a real synth inside out.
3rd, For beginners wanting to learn. I started out some 25years ago and having a real piece of anything makes you understand much faster than what it does. All the virtual stuff gives you a bigger learning curve which imo, makes it harder to understand/learn. That being said, the possibility to have all things virtual does grant you acces to things you couldnt afford to buy 25 years ago, but if i take a typical formant based synth and give it to a noob he'd probably know more about sound design in a year opposed to one with a plugin.
As for virtual outboard, processing; This is where digital shines, especialy in the dynamic processing where coloration/saturation isnt needed. Coloration/saturation i think is being overused, to compensate or by not even realising that either is added in the signal. For samplism you most likely wont need either, for dry material and working itb its a good solution but it really depends on your project. Sometimes its just fixing something you couldve solved during the recording instead of "touching up".
A lot of things is plain marketing aswell, you can take an api2500 plugin and the real thing and it would be easy to say that the plugin sounds good. It cant beat the real api2500, it really didnt get me as much.
Then there are impulse responses which actualy do sound really nice. Last year we rented a battery of rev. F 1176 for a project and we took an IR. After the project we compared the same material and the real 1176 takes were richer but if you dont have it, the IR wasnt all that bad at all as an alternative. Its just knowing the difference that puts you off with these kinda thing.
Then again, top of the line high end digital processing -> TC 6k, Weiss. All dsp products in hardware format with no plugin format alternatives that come close.
here the thing for me with analog; it does sound better considering all the pieces have their own signature sound opposed to everything sound like your converters. Plugin's can provide features you cant obtain in the analog domain (if so, its mad expensive), i think those plugs are valuable, stuff like Rob Paapen's Blade are truly unique.
I dont bother about wether or not people could recognize the difference, but its like a palette of colours working on a canvas. Is it relevant to score ? No, but some people do know the differences and set out their preferences that way and others are not willing to go that route because it is expensive to gain the same amount of options (not to mention the amount and quality of i/o you need).
Second, hand's on control. Buttons, knobs and whatnot for dedicated features result to a more intuitive approach on synths, outboard and also mpc's and the likes. If i dont need to look at the screen it means i'm using my ears better. On the creative side, im using synth better when theyre analog, its intuitive and often so much i dont even use a sequencer or use automation. Having 10 fingers to play and tweak with one machine is really something else and i know i can use my midi controllers to gain the same hands on control but the reality is that you dont have enough knobs or those knobs arent as logical as knowing a real synth inside out.
3rd, For beginners wanting to learn. I started out some 25years ago and having a real piece of anything makes you understand much faster than what it does. All the virtual stuff gives you a bigger learning curve which imo, makes it harder to understand/learn. That being said, the possibility to have all things virtual does grant you acces to things you couldnt afford to buy 25 years ago
, but if i take a typical formant based synth and give it to a noob he'd probably know more about sound design in a year opposed to one with a plugin.As for virtual outboard, processing; This is where digital shines, especialy in the dynamic processing where coloration/saturation isnt needed. Coloration/saturation i think is being overused, to compensate or by not even realising that either is added in the signal. For samplism you most likely wont need either, for dry material and working itb its a good solution but it really depends on your project. Sometimes its just fixing something you couldve solved during the recording instead of "touching up".
A lot of things is plain marketing aswell, you can take an api2500 plugin and the real thing and it would be easy to say that the plugin sounds good. It cant beat the real api2500, it really didnt get me as much.
Then there are impulse responses which actualy do sound really nice. Last year we rented a battery of rev. F 1176 for a project and we took an IR. After the project we compared the same material and the real 1176 takes were richer but if you dont have it, the IR wasnt all that bad at all as an alternative. Its just knowing the difference that puts you off with these kinda thing.
Then again, top of the line high end digital processing -> TC 6k, Weiss. All dsp products in hardware format with no plugin format alternatives that come close.
Greg Savage
Ehh Fuck you
ill o.g.
Not even that, it's more soo understanding why that app or hardware unit sounds the way it does. I think if people really understand these things it would take the "wow" factor away. You'd be able to hear things and say "I can get that same sound via this unit or this app" rather than forking over $$$
because at the end of the day it's all frequencies
Formant024
Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
I thought this debate was resolved. There is always some hardware you cannot do without..Monitors and a pc/mac for example, and a good interface. I was under the impression that emulation had come so far as to have killed this whole debate.
Greg Savage
Ehh Fuck you
ill o.g.
NEVER!!!!!!
Formant024
Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
Greg Savage
Ehh Fuck you
ill o.g.
SLAP!
Barbie Beats
Banned
I def didn't mean to sound like a spoiled brat by saying $ isn't an issue, ill never purchase any gear without extensively searching reviews and asking other producers about it first. I have a grave respect for music and am fully aware of the time and effort a new system is going to entail. If its going in my studio I'm going to attempt to understand every facet of it.
I try to remain Switzerland when it comes to production debates cuz you'll never get the same answer from 2 ppl. I just went thru it when I purchased my MPC Reni, half the peanut gallery said "u gotta have one, it's so different" and the other half said "u can get the same sound outta ur DAW". Then when I got the thing I realized that for me, the reason I love it is not even sound related, it's a convenience preference, it eliminated a lot of boredom and "beat block" out of production. It made cranking out deadlines a lot more fun and yes in case u were wondering, I can personally absolutely hear a difference in sound. Now whether that's my imagination or a fact is probably debatable. Lol
Right now I'm using analog thru my channel strip and I prefer it that way, which sucks for me cuz I'm a product of the digital age and a lot if the ppl I'm working with are my contemporaries and are busy riding the bandwagon. Which leaves me once again self teaching myself everything, which I am going thru now w my MPC. I was disgusted to find that out of everyone I know making music thats in my vicinity only one even knew how to turn one on. Smh Now everyone wants one.
See now the ppl that I know that r running analog are multi platinum selling producers and swear by it, or they're ppl that have been doing this for decades (mostly sound engineers). You can't really argue with success or experience. I took the plunge and couldn't be happier, which left me wondering wtf is everyone else thinking? Why couldn't I get more info from friends on it? How could u NOT hear a difference? Is it a broke or a lazy issue? Maybe sheer ignorance...henceforth analog VS digital debate. For the 900th time. Lol
I try to remain Switzerland when it comes to production debates cuz you'll never get the same answer from 2 ppl. I just went thru it when I purchased my MPC Reni, half the peanut gallery said "u gotta have one, it's so different" and the other half said "u can get the same sound outta ur DAW". Then when I got the thing I realized that for me, the reason I love it is not even sound related, it's a convenience preference, it eliminated a lot of boredom and "beat block" out of production. It made cranking out deadlines a lot more fun and yes in case u were wondering, I can personally absolutely hear a difference in sound. Now whether that's my imagination or a fact is probably debatable. Lol
Right now I'm using analog thru my channel strip and I prefer it that way, which sucks for me cuz I'm a product of the digital age and a lot if the ppl I'm working with are my contemporaries and are busy riding the bandwagon. Which leaves me once again self teaching myself everything, which I am going thru now w my MPC. I was disgusted to find that out of everyone I know making music thats in my vicinity only one even knew how to turn one on. Smh Now everyone wants one.
See now the ppl that I know that r running analog are multi platinum selling producers and swear by it, or they're ppl that have been doing this for decades (mostly sound engineers). You can't really argue with success or experience. I took the plunge and couldn't be happier, which left me wondering wtf is everyone else thinking? Why couldn't I get more info from friends on it? How could u NOT hear a difference? Is it a broke or a lazy issue? Maybe sheer ignorance...henceforth analog VS digital debate. For the 900th time. Lol
Barbie Beats
Banned
Yet here u are
Muhahaha *evil laugh*
Greg Savage
Ehh Fuck you
ill o.g.
You're definitely hearing a difference in sound. How much you're hearing? Well, that would depend on the what you're coming from.
What your hearing is the MPC's A/D vs your soundcard's A/D not the software vs the MPC because the software has no converters.
The the converters are what makes the sound. This is why people are all into custom gear now. People are taking old converters and getting them placed in their soundcards, preamps etc It's crazy (in a good way).
You play sounds through Maudio then play some through Apogee both in a treated room....It's like night and day.
What channel strip are you using (if you don't mind me asking). I press everything through Meek and sometimes a Grace