8 - 16 - 8 - 16 - 8 - 16...

[Loose Cannon]

I got people who come down to my house, you know, to get some freestyles on tape, i just do it messin around with THEM most of the time because there my buddys friends, but nobody follows the 8/16/8/16 thing, you know. And they all "What the Fuck you talkin about 16-8""Fuck-It". I do a lot of real shit wit people that use the 16 8 thing, but there friends dont.

How many of you use the 16 8 thing?

 

[nobodyfamous]

man..i know exactly what you are talking about...i guess it would be like a courtisy thing for freestyling, you dont want n e one hogging the mic..lol..but when it comes to songs, ill be like, write a 16 bar verse, and they will be like what? im like where have you been the past however many years..lol..that is a good rule to follow, cuz it keeps the song at a reasonable lenght and it hold interest. some kats i worked with want to just write til they cant n e more then put like 5 people on the song so the song ends up being like 6 minutes! lol..but i even lay my beats out like that so they are ready, sometime i do through a 4 bar bridge in there before the last verse or something..

 

[Formant024]

just record and complete the beat after if you must, as far as i know it's never decided " how to " during any freestyle session. Just loop the main theme and get on the getgo.

 

[Freakwncy]

f_ck that... you're the producer as long as you can count.. who cares if they spit 16, 32, 100 bars... it's up to you to make it not sound boring...

 

[nobodyfamous]

Originally posted by Freakwncy
f_ck that... you're the producer as long as you can count.. who cares if they spit 16, 32, 100 bars... it's up to you to make it not sound boring...

r u gonna want to listen to a rapper talk about non sense for 100 bars??

 

[Formant024]

if its twice the speed it actualy just fifty bars, just jackassing.

 

[nas2000xl]

yo helix you are doing it right. thats the only way to keep that ish limited. if they dont know about bars & beats tell em they gotta learn. i dont care about how much freestyling they can do, after a point it gets boring. keep the 8,16 thing going. remember you are the producer, you set the pace.

 

[nobodyfamous]

Originally posted by nas2000xl
yo helix you are doing it right. thats the only way to keep that ish limited. if they dont know about bars & beats tell em they gotta learn. i dont care about how much freestyling they can do, after a point it gets boring. keep the 8,16 thing going. remember you are the producer, you set the pace.

i couldn't agree wit you more..if they want to be rappers and what not..they have to get serious and learn the craft...

 

[Guevara]

WHY SHOULD ANYBODY BE LiMiTED TO 16 BARS BECAUSE iTS THE HiP HoP STANDARD, NoNE oF MY RHYMES ARE A STRAIGHT 16, MAYBE BECAUSE i STARTED AS A PoET AND i STiLL DoNT CoNSIDER MYSELF A RAPPER BUT i WRiTE UNTiL i FEEL LiKE iVE GoTTEN MY PoiNT ACROSS FoR THAT PARTiCULAR VERSE, iT MoSTLY FALLS ARoUND 24 AND 32, BUT iT CAN BE 2 BARS, i NEVER LiMiT MYSELF AS AN ARTiST...BUT WHEN i MAKE BEATS FoR OTHER PEOPLE iTS ALWAYS 16-8 THEN THEY SWITCH iT UP iF THEY WANT oR HAVE TO DEPENDING oN THE soNG.CiTY

 

[Architect]

It's good to set some guidelines, but don't limit your artists especially if they indeed have something to say, meaning the content of their rhymes is tight, you can follow it and it proves some type of point. Yeah sure you don't want to hear somebody rap about shit for 100 bars, but that goes in consideration with the quality of the rapper. You're not going to tell Canibus or Nas "No you can only spit 16 bars" you just can't do it.

Now for freestyle type of shit find out how serious these cats are, is this track your recording just to listen to in the bedroom with your homeboys or is this something serious that they would like to put out for public consumption? Plan the shit out but don't limit them, guide them and make recommendations after you've heard what they have to say or if its freestyle and you don't know yet, you can always mix that shit up cut out the parts that get boring etc, etc, but your the producer you have control over the final output, but I wouldn't tell them NO you can't do that much, but I would definetly tell them to keep it live or else cut that shit appropriately to make a 'song' out of it.

 

[nas2000xl]

why put extra work on yourself? the artist have to know his ish too. i use to do things that way and it became a big headache for me. with that type of mentality it seems as though you are just happy to have someone rap on your beat. isn`t it enough that we producers have to come up with a hot track in the first place. whats a producer without guidelines? yo its your track, you have the control to say how things are going to be. and yes i would tell cannibus or nas just that. cause i have my own vision with this track. if all i want from them is 8 or 16 bars thats all they get. the way i look at it is, you have 3 + minutes to say what you have to say formatted, 8, 16, 8, 16 ect. un formatted becomes jibberish.

 

[Guevara]

DO U KNOW HOW MANY CLASSIC SONGS CoULD HAVE BEEN THRoWN oUT THE wINDOW iF THE PRoDUCER WAS THAT STUBBoRN.THE PRoDUCER AND THE ARTiST HAVE TO CoME TO SomE KiND oF LEVEL. WHEN i DELiVER BEATS i DoNT FUCK WiT THE ARTiST uLESS i HAVE A PARTiCULAR CoNCEPT OTHER THAN THAT U CANT PLAY WiT SoMEBODIES EMoTiONS oN A TRACK THEN U LoSE CREATiVE ENERGY...
THATS LiKE SELLiNG VAN GoGH A CANVAS AND TELLiN HiM WHAT TO PAiNT oR WHAT CoLORS TO USE, SURE U MiGHT HAVE SomE iNSiGHT BUT BEYoND YoUR PERSoNAL OpINioN iTS oUT oF YoUR CoNTROL AND iTS LEFT TO THE iNTERPRETATiON oF THE ARTiST.CiTY

 

[Loose Cannon]

I didnt mean limit them to 16 bars, but i agree wit wut everybodys sayin. But wut i mean is they someimes do like `15 Bars. And that f___ed. I mean, when i make my beats its like either a 4-8-12-16 or 18 bar thing, same for the chorus, verse, wutever, but not 15, or 13 or anything odd, then you have open spots between shit.


Im sayin (to one of them i was recordin wit the other day):
Eminem, 50 , Dre, use the 16 thing.
he says: Fuck Eminem, 50, and Dre.
I say: Mobb Deep, Outkast sometimes, mos def, and kweli use the 16 thing.
He says: Fuck them.
I say: Biggie uses it.
he says: ...umm... ...your lucky i cant say nothin... ...ok, ill try it.

its hard for him but he's startin to get it.

 

[nas2000xl]

guevara the same goes for the producer. you dont want anybody ucking with your track either.(lol) if i make a formatted track and a rapper wants to rap on it, then he writes to that format and thats that. i`m not going to tear my beat apart just because he or she wants to rap 32 bars before the hook. look i`ve been in this game long enough to know that there aint ish any rapper can say that would hold my attention for that long. (lol) thats why the industry do it like they do it. besides guevara you said it yourself in a earlier thread,

"A&R`s only want to hear the first 8 bars and the hook"


(lol) but you know what, dont set boundries and i bet that you will throw most of that ish away anyway. if the rapper is a decent writer the he/she shoud be able to make their point within the amount of time.:dance:

 

[Guevara]

i UNDERSTAND THE PoINTS U TRYiN TO GET ACROSS AND i RESPECT THAT, i JUST THiNK THAT THERE SHoULD BE SoME CREATiVE LEVERAGE GIVEN, iTS LiKE EVERYoNE HERE MAKES THEIR BEATS oN A CERTAiN STANDARD LiKE ME i MAKE 16 BARS THEN i MAKE AN 8 BAR HoOK, BUT WHEN THE SoNG GoES DoWN i LiKE To EXPERiMENT TO CREATE THE SoNG ARUND THE BEAT, LiKE iF U LiSTEN TO THE "RENAISSANCE" BEAT oN MY SoUNDCLiCK SiTE AND THEN LiSTEN TO THE SoNG "mOmmA" WHiCH WAS WRiTTEN To THAT BEAT U UNDERSTAND.

AS FAR AS THE ...."A&R'S oNLY WANNA HEAR 8 BARS AND A HOOK" THATS WHAT AN A&R oNCE TOLD ME ABOUT PRODUCERS I THINK ITS DIFFERENT WHEN IT COMES TO ARTIST...BUT DAMN i DiDNT THiNK PEOPLE REMEBERED THE SHiT i SAiD..LOL, NiCE TO SEE SoMEBODY LiSTENS..HAHA

BUT I FEEL WHAT EVERYoNE SAYS.
TO QUoTE A PoPULAR SAYiN oN THiS SiTE.
"To EACH HiS oWN"

TELL EM CiTY SENT YA!!!

 

[Architect]

Well everybody has their own way of working, but when I hook up with an artist we have no preconceived limits on how the music is going to sound and how many lines the rapper is going to spit, we sit down FIRST, vibe together and agree on how the track is going to come off, we're not following any rules except to make dope shit, even if it takes us all night to do it, I'm not in a rush to get 8-16-whatever amount of bars. My primary goal as a producer is to capture the essence and spirit of the 'song'.

I don't understand this cookie cutter shit, I mean when I make a track sometimes there isn't an introduction, maybe the rapper will come right off with the beat, maybe the first verse is longer or shorter than 16 bars maybe there is no chorus/hook, maybe there is a breakdown or bridge in the middle of the song, maybe this maybe that, IN MY OPINION when sticking to standards like 16 bars etc your putting yourself into a corner, I'm not saying that any of the rappers I work with go longer or shorter than 16, my only point is I don't set limits on that sort of thing, I want to hear them out first and then we'll both agree on what will work best. Believe me many rappers love that type of freedom and they don't abuse it because they do have something dope to contribute. To each his own though.

 

[Guevara]

THATS EXACTLY HOW i FEEL.CiTY

 

[nas2000xl]

ok guevara i feel what you are saying. let me make something clear.
if me and the rapper sat down and came up with a certain concept as far as how the song was going to be put together, then i have no problem with that. we can make a song using 12, 16, 24 bars. but if the rapper wanted a beat that i already made and its already formatted, then he/she will have to take that beat like it is. thats all i`m saying

oh yea guevara, you guys make interesting points so i do pay attention.