The Loudness of the Master

O

open mind

Guest
i scanned lots of "commercial" tracks with audition 2 to see the wave form of the track.
99.9% of the time it looked like this:

commercial track.this sounds good.


my track looks like this after MIXING.this sounds good.


now to achieve "commercial" loudness i process this with gain sumtin like +5 or sumtin the result is this.


now i have "commercial" loudness but it sounds SHIT! i have to point out that ITS NOT CLIPPING technicaly iam still not over 0db but its sounds very bad to my ear and its like sumtin is clipping but the fucking meters say it dont!

now the big question how can i achieve "commercial" loudness in the master without fucking up a "good sounding" mix?

ps:i know that mixing and mastering is an art and takes years to master it thats why iam asking you guys.that have the experience.
 
O

open mind

Guest
Phi'Zik said:
Nice article but Openmind why don't you use a UltraMaximizer or something like that ?
Click to expand...
with a maximizer i cant achieve the loudness its too lil.i tried!
 
O

open mind

Guest
thedreampolice said:
"commercial" loudness in the master without fucking up a "good sounding" mix?"

You cant

http://prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DAF1C
Click to expand...


u are wrong! just turn the radio on! they are LOUD n Nice.just scan some of commercial cds with a wave scanner and u believe me!

the "pros" they make it sound LOUD n NICE.thats my goal but its fuckin hard.without knowing how.i got the tools and the ear but not the technic and knowledge that would be fantastic to know.
 
thedreampolice

thedreampolice

A backwards poet writes inverse.
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
bthis!
umm no

Listen to californication by the chili peppers. Loud and fucked up. Also did you read the article. When music looses its dynamics it sounds like crap period. Music on the radio sounds like crap. Go listen to some classical music on vinyl thats how dynamics are supposed to sound.
 
O

open mind

Guest
thedreampolice said:
umm no

Listen to californication by the chili peppers. Loud and fucked up. Also did you read the article. When music looses its dynamics it sounds like crap period. Music on the radio sounds like crap. Go listen to some classical music on vinyl thats how dynamics are supposed to sound.
Click to expand...
i see your point but the competetion FORCE you to be loud because if yours is low and the other is loud then the ear thinks yours is shit feel me?


*edit* californication sounds nice man i dunno what u mean.dynamics sounds good. and LOUD
 
thedreampolice

thedreampolice

A backwards poet writes inverse.
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
bthis!
"i see your point but the competetion FORCE you to be loud because if yours is low and the other is loud then the ear thinks yours is shit feel me?


*edit* californication sounds nice man i dunno what u mean.dynamics sounds good. and LOUD""


Ya I totally agree you are kind of forced in to it and that sucks. My advice is leave it to the mastering engineer. It is not up to the mix engineer to do what you are doing.

Californication actually clips, you can hear it. what kind of system are you listening to it on? When it first came out they actually had people returning it because they thought they got defective cd's.
 
Relic

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
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Open mind.... #1 prob with that waveform of yours is that you have some sort of thing that is damn near peaking in the original(hh? snare?) so when you are processing it it REALLY is going to sound like its clipping.
What you ought to do is record lower so that the whole waveform looks like the part that leads in in your before example above.
THEN normalize the whole wave that will help I promise.
Then I recommend...wait for it....you know whats comming.....my favorite software.....:D.....Har-Bal it!
That will generally boost your volume even more without distorting it and in somecases it will lower the volume so that it doesnt distort...Love that program.

Thats my recommendation. The truth is unless you pay for a pro to master it for you or you study the mastering process its just not going to sound like the radio because truly those guys are using $10,000 monitors and shit....
 
Ash Holmz

Ash Holmz

The Bed-Stuy Fly Guy
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 207
bthis!
bthat!
thats a process called mastering ... it takes years of training and amazing ears to be good at it... these guys are often using modified high end equipment that is hard to come by and too expensive to get if u ever did come by it... te best way to get "close" on a bugdet is a good set of compression and limiting plug ins.. even then it will be almost as loud ... but probably not have a depth and space a well mastered album has... the good news is ... THE GENERAL POPULATION DONT GIVE A FUC! .. people just want loud in ur face music nowadays anyways... most people are listening to their music in ipods and boom boxes... and in their car... and alot of commercial tracks im hearing nowadays sound distorted too... jayz black album sounds horrible... but the music is good so people dont notice... .. the album im workin on at the moment im tryin to decide the best way to mix and master it ... im debatin the trade off between doin it myself for cheap or payin some cat with top level equipment and experience to do it for me.. i prolly could do a decent job by myself but i know if i outsource its gonna sound that much better but also be way more expensive ... thats the trade off u gotta work around in this grind..
 
bigdmakintrax

bigdmakintrax

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ill o.g.
Battle Points: 123
bthis!
Ash Holmz said:
... jayz black album sounds horrible... ..
Click to expand...
OUch, LOL Young Guru did that I believe, but there was a whole lot of people that agree with you about that too, it seems it might be proof that protools all alone with no outboard analog gear whatsoever....might be in need of some assistance because I know Guru is pretty much world renown for his mixing, I know Swiv is around here somewhere, but I happen to also know a couple other pro mixers that been doing it long b4 protools and they all tell me they use analog in combo with the tools if they choose to use it or another software....they old skool too though but their shit sounds pretty much like any Dr. Dre mix i don heard...but its not an overnight magic art though to be able to mix and master, but that waveform you have there I have seen a normal waveform after passing thru one of the waves recommended mastering chain configurations....yielding a waveform like that though so I definitely think its possible to come close using a limiter...and the compression correctly with computer based plugins....but probably the most important is your monitoring setup and reference....
 
O

open mind

Guest
bigdmakintrax said:
OUch, LOL Young Guru did that I believe, but there was a whole lot of people that agree with you about that too, it seems it might be proof that protools all alone with no outboard analog gear whatsoever....might be in need of some assistance because I know Guru is pretty much world renown for his mixing, I know Swiv is around here somewhere, but I happen to also know a couple other pro mixers that been doing it long b4 protools and they all tell me they use analog in combo with the tools if they choose to use it or another software....they old skool too though but their shit sounds pretty much like any Dr. Dre mix i don heard...but its not an overnight magic art though to be able to mix and master, but that waveform you have there I have seen a normal waveform after passing thru one of the waves recommended mastering chain configurations....yielding a waveform like that though so I definitely think its possible to come close using a limiter...and the compression correctly with computer based plugins....but probably the most important is your monitoring setup and reference....
Click to expand...
DAMN bigD u absolutely right. i tried waves ultramaximizer and it was the only ********* tool that can do what i looked for this mo*****az from waves are WIZARDS! now i understand their pricing! their quality and result is OUTSTANDING!

i spend so much time on how to get that f**** result and then just one M******N CLICK and WHOOOOOOOOOOMP there it is.incredible.
 
Formant024

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
good mixing ( eq/comp etc ) makes mastering very easy ( or at least a lot ), there can be a solution to your problem in shape of a tool like ultramaximizer but they shouldnt be as neccesary as described in this thread. A good mix comes as close as you can get to -.01dB ( when you master yourself ), only then you will get into the limiting fase of the process.
 
NobleWordz

NobleWordz

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 4
when you have finished your mix it should be peaking at like -6db so you leave headroom for the mastering ..... One of the biggest mistakes we make as producers is not leaving headroom.

Also those commercial tracks have vocals so its going to look fat, it looks like you have no vocals.

Unless your track is only going to be used as an instrumental there is no point in mastering it because you have no vocals.

I use iZotop Ozone to master, I suggest you check it out, unless you can afford to get it mastered by a pro.

If you want to get it mastered i recommend MASSIVEMastering http://www.massivemastering.com/

Professional, reliable and relatively cheap.

~ NW ~
 
O

open mind

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Heheheeh ! Got It Now!



HEHEEHHEHEHEHEH !
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