Did you know the industry was this shady???

[J-malice]

this isnt me, but just read it and you just might start to think about some shit. and of course i wana know if theres anyone here that can verify any of this info.

originally posted by Fabulous Sport
This Is My Official Fu-k The Industry Thread........


I've been signed for about 4 months now to a major label and now I wish I never started rapping, producing, or even getting into the music business, I'm going to college. You know why underground rappers never shine?? You wanna know why it's so hard to get a deal?? You wanna know why some artists can write 6-7 albums while some cats struggle to write one?? You wanna know why It's more A&R's that exists on labels than it is actual artists on the label?? You wanna know why Interscope is suppressing the whole Eminem thing??

Here Goes.......

Most cats believe they can get a deal by spittin' some sick lyrics or making some good songs, wrong. You know what labels do?? A&R's don't look for artists, not at all, Labels sign around 25 artists per decade and then freeze signings. A&R's don't go look for the next big artists, they look for hit songs and writing pools and people who can sing backup vocals. A&R's aren't worried about finding artists with star quality that have interesting backgrounds, oh no, not at all.

Here's how they do rappers.........Raping-U-Records artists are starting to get old and played out so they send an A&R out to find a punkass rapper who lives in a respectable area. Next, they make sure the artist is marketable, then they'll sign the artist. Now Rapper A has a record deal with no previous history of rapping, next the label will setup a front to make it look like they discovered the artist (might sign a kid first, then set it up to make it look like this kid was rapping in front of a crowd at a gas station where a highly known A&R just happened to be getting gas from).

Next, they'll sit down with the artist and have this reality talk to them, explaining to them that the industry is a business and none of this is real. Now, they'll overexagerate their background and even lie about their age and where they grew up, they'll push a suburban to a harder area then they're really from. They find a an angle (pop's died, parents divorced, got shot, sold drugs, friend died) and push that angle to build the artist sentimental respect (who likes a punk who lived a perfect life??). They'll use that angle to build a story around them and how that event or events affected them.

Now, they hit the studio, right?? Wrong!! Now here is what real A&R's are meant for. They'll send out their A&R's and stupid cats like me will kill to get the demo in their hands, once these A&R's have a good number of SOLICITED demo's they'll tell Rappers B, C and D to send the label some material. Rappers B, C and D think they might get a deal, so they get their demo package together with Bio, Pic's, Press Kit and the actual demo. They probably tellin' their guys that they finna get signed and ish. Wrong........

Now A&R B is at the label listening to the demos of Rapper B, C and D. A&R B doesn't care for anything but the songs. A&R B is really feeling Rapper B and D's demo's (capable hit songs) but not Rapper C. So that's when Rapper C gets the rejection letter. Now the A&R is interested in Rapper B & D's material, so they'll write them and ask them to send more material, now B & D really think they're gonna get signed.

A&R B listens again and feels as if Rapper D isn't as good as he thought he was but still feels Rapper B. Now he sends a rejection letter to Rapper D. Now the contact is made with Rapper B and a meeting is set up. Sounds lovely right?? Keep Reading....A&R B and Rapper B and a few exec's have a meeting and now Rapper B is hit with REALITY. A&R B explains the real music business and gives Rapper B a choice, either walk out that door and be forever blackballed or the alternative.

You remember Rapper A, right?? Rapper B has been hit with the reality that he will never be a star. Rapper B just sent in about 10 songs to A&R B which were purchased and now will be on Rapper A's album. Rapper B is now merely part of a writing pool, he will continue to make songs under the supervision of an A&R, only not for himself, for everyone else. Now Rapper B sends about 10-20 songs to Rapin-U-Records every 3 months and now Rapper A, Rapper X, Rapper J and Singer T go through Rapper B's material as well as the other hundred's of Rappers and Singers that are merely writing pools material and pick which song they want on their album.

Now here is where the process takes place, Rapper A chooses 3 songs from Rapper B, 4 songs from Rapper Y and 2 songs from Singer U to make an album. Rapper A might want to do his own song so the label gives Rapper A 2 slots to do his own songs. When the album is finished, starving artists in writing pools are paid off and SILENCED. Now you can read the credits and see Rapper A's name all over, but it's to fool you, the sheep, the cats who buy the albums and the stupid chickenheads that believe anything in writing.

Rapper A has candy stories and rumors started by people at the label that grow and make the Rapper more respectable, more harder and more controversial to keep the life span of Rapper A alive. Guess what?? If an A&R finds someone else who's making better songs than Rapper B, they cut him off and blackball him to keep him silenced, it's that simple, fuk what you heard and believe. Beef?? Real or fake?? Ima tell you this, more beef's in the past and present then you brainwashed muthafukaz will ever believe are fake, some are real but even then you'll believe what you want. Once Rapper A falls off (not lyrically, not songwise) marketwise, they drop them and a new era of MUSIC INDUSTRY BULLSH*T arises.

And that's just the rappers, I'm not even going to get into producing, all Ima say is that most of your respectable producers are merely NAMES, you believe PRODUCER B is ths ish?? PRODUCER B can produce, but how do you think they can produce so many hot songs at one time?? They don't, a label will send out A&R's to find clones (people who've been influenced and therefore have the same sound) of the producer and the same process as with Rapper's A, B, C and D will spark up with producers too. THINK ABOUT IT........

Why do think it took Twista and Memphis Bleek so long to come out again, huh?? Cuz they wanted to write their own albums and didn't want to fall victim, too bad that's not for most of the ROC. Why do you think Ali Vegas will probably never drop and even when he drops, watch what happens......Why do you think 50 Cent couldn't get a deal after Trackmasters?? How come the Bravehearts took so long?? And then didn't even get pushed, promoted or even have money put behind them?? Hey Chicago, where is 3Piece?? Why do you think both MTV MC Battles promised Def Jam and Roc-A-Fella Contracts but Reignman's on his own label and Wreckognize aint on the Roc?? How come Shawnna got shelved?? Why did Universal lie about Nelly's age?? Why did it take Jin some 2 and a half years to come out with a single?? Where the hell is Postaboy?? What did Mase get exposed to that made him choose God over Millions of dollars?? Cats know the truth and don't like it, it's that simple.......


How would you like it if you've been rapping since you were 7, been hustlin demos, doing meaningless talent showcases and then you finally get a deal at age 20 and now you've become Rapper B?? The industry messes people up for real and half these cats who see the Bling Bling and girls think that's all their is, it's like finding out God doesn't really exists and now I've become Rapper B.

Sh*t like this gets cats killed for real, the industry is shady and what you've seen on TV, them DVD's, in interviews, VH1, MTV, whatever is nothing but the "GHOST INDUSTRY" that you've been led to believe is how it is and none of you have any idea, I hate the music industry, I hate the entertainment business, I'm going to college, getting my degree and am leaving this is behind me, FU*K COLUMBIA RECORDS and most of all, ya'll can SU*K my D*CK. To the industry heads on here, F*CK U, go ahead, yeah, I've broken the silence, only the underground is real, FU*K the industry.......

I'm uppin this til everyone reads it, I thought I was about live out my dream and now I've been exposed to the nightmare that is the industry. I was brainwashed, now I'm not, everything I've said in this post is the truth, anything you've heard or been led to believe is bull, this post applies to all them STUDIO wankstaz.......

Cat's I know got ghostwriters and songs come from writing pools.........Fuk what you believe........

Clipse
Snoop
Nas
D-Block
Eminem
Fabolous
Biggie
Static
Joe Budden
Nelly
Mase
Chingy
Ludacris
Kanye West
Trick Daddy
Cassidy
Jay-Z
Young Gunz
Murphy Lee

And about a bunch of cats I'm too pissed to mention right now......I'm uppin this til the world blows up, think about this ish seriously and a lot of ish will start to make more sense......

-Welcome To The Real Music Industry-

 

[N.U.G.]

yo,I've now read this at every forum I post at. I don't believe a lot of it.

 

[MIKELABZ]

DANG I COULDNT EVEN FINISH READING ALL OF THIS SHYT.

 

[StressWon]

yo J man,,,I feel everything ya said. back when i was 19 I had a chance to sign with Epic(They still around?) Anyway, i had this group and it was me and my 2 boys. Now they were Dominican and I was the white boy. Now when I was 19 it was 1994. back then it wasnt cool to have two spanish kids and a white boy perform. To make a long story short,,,,

,,,,,we never signed because my lawyer said we would get ripped off and after it was said and done(contract wise) the 3 of us would make an average of 400 a week!!! Not only that, they didnt want me in the group because of my skin tone,,but i was still good enuff to write the songs! Its all a big scam. Thats why I'm happy if i never sign because I'm already 28,,,,,I'm too old by industry standards!


Oh yeah, Jay did have a ghostwriter too! J's tellin that truth on that because I knew one of them. Of course i can't mention names but anyone from newark who knows the industry knows who and which group he used to be in!

 

[BROUSSARD BEATS]

yea i use to be in a group with this record company and they was like we have a writting pool . it was like you put in your songs and we pass them out. i was like bull and i left

 

[God]

Writing pools are effective ways of lowering exposure for a loss on an investment in the record industry. If I am a record company, I do not want to have all my eggs in one basket, or one artist thinking they can write “hits.” A pool harvests talent and when a member of the pool is not pulling their weight, they are supposed to get let go (in theory- I’ll get back to that later.)

Writing pools are not uncommon in producer based music, like pop and R&B. In fact, in the old days, during the 50’s, record companies, like Capitol, would have songwriting departments. A good example is Neil Diamond: he started out as a songwriter in a songwriting department, then worked his way to eventually becoming a performer. As a songwriter in a songwriting department, your job is to write songs everyday, and present them to the head of the department, and see what artist can play your song.

The writing pool evolved from being an in-house item, to being outsourced, like how scriptwriting used to be in the old days of moviemaking (the studios would have a kind of “scriptwriting department” that would work with each other and produce hits like ‘Casablanca.’ “

Anyway, the singer/performer is essentially a facade for a well-oiled moneymaking machine, which is the whole object of the system, to bring a return on investment. This has been happening for a very long time. If you have an all-star list of songwriters to choose from, like Diane Warren in pop (she penned hits for Celine Dion and Aerosmith), or in Nashville, or what we’re going to talk about here, a writing pool in hip-hop, it really is no different. An adept producer, like Dr. Dre or Timbaland, has it in their best interest to become the marketer of a songs written by their own writing pool that is specifically signed to their production company, and shop that to different record companies. It is rationally using a group of people’s talents than just one person’s. Your odds of staying in the game are thus increased by having your own ghostwriters, remember... two heads are better than one (or 14, or 20.)

What has taken many of you all aback is that you DID NOT know that this occurs. Well, it really is time to open up your eyes if this is the business you want to be involved in. Everybody wants to be a star, but if I am a record executive, and I need to project decent earnings for the fiscal year, I probably will try to find a “face” rapper to fabricate and use a respected pool of writers (for hip hop and pop) in order to make my pop-rapper appealing, with a chance for crossover of genres. Or, I can see the situation is too encompassed with pop-rappers, and then I can take it the other way and bring in a hardcore rapper, in order to differentiate myself, but still use the same writing pool to pen hits.

With a diverse musical industry, many record executives are usually white and middle-aged, and do not have the taste in regards to hip-hop, but they can have an idea. That’s why production companies are helpful, they are in touch, have their own writing pools (or an A&R rep that has his/her “pulse” on the music of today and hosts a “writing pool” for a record company... usually a one or two deep label.) Utilizing these people to work for the exec at the major will help the exec project earnings better for the next quarter or fiscal year. This is in turn will aid in the parent company’s assessment of their entertainment division, and then possibly aid in an increase in shareholder value.

I think many of you are having a moral issue with this, because it is not what you all expected. It is true, though not always, and usually not in hard rock. However, even Mushroomhead (a hard rock band) covered Seal’s “Crazy,” which was probably a producer or A&R man’s idea. The biggest offender, I believe, in rock, is No Doubt. No Doubt is blessed with the marketability of Gwen Stefani, and their more poppish style change in recent albums was fueled by adept songwriting producers and writing pools. In fact, the band’s first album before their hit “Tragic Kingdom” was all ska. It didn’t sell, but someone saw that Gwen had the image to be a star, and put the band to work with... was it Ric Ocasek? I forgot, but he basically rewrote their album, and penned crossovers for them to make Tragic Kingdom a giant album. I think one original member of the band left because he couldn’t deal with the situation that the band had little control in the music. That’s kind of how you all might be feeling.

The situation is, that people can become extremely wealthy belonging to a writing pool and receiving a royalty. Remember, that being in a writing pool itself is tough, and...

If someone is signed in some capacity to a major, politics is what usually occurs within the pools. In fact, (I DISCLAIM EVERYTHING HEREON-- DON’T DO IT) deals within members of pools occur between them and A&R or whoever is the gatekeeper to the label or song purchaser. Pool members politick with the label execs that have the power to pick their songs. Label execs get illegal kickbacks from the members of the pools in order to get their songs picked by the label, and keep that specific pool member employed (THAT IS WRONG AND I DO NOT SUPPORT IT). If they are pool members through a production company, and are not granted direct access to the label exec., sophistication is required in cutting out the middleman (if necessary.)

Pool members can make become extremely wealthy if they play their cards right. It can be a stepping stone to becoming an acknowledged songwriter, where then you can have your own pool. It depends. Some people use it to get their foot in the door. I feel sorry for songwriters, unless they’re established, because they can lose employment in an instant.

So, I believe that this is a kind of “ego check” for many of you. Do you want to make money and play by the games within the industry? Or do you want to not make money but stay true to yourself?

As I’ve said earlier, the entertainment industry sells AN IMAGE. That is very important, and must be acknowledged. If good music can come with that image, all the better. If that image can be cross promoted with Pepsi, Coca-Cola, or a clothing line, all the better. I suggest many of you should reassess your positions not only artistically, but put on your business hats. It’s a Darwinian affair in all business.

REMEMBER NOT EVERY MUSIC ACT IS LIKE THIS... AT ALL. DO NOT THINK THAT THERE IS NOT A CHANCE FOR A PERSON TO MAKE IT ON THEIR OWN MERIT. But, educate yourselves. Good luck.

Sincerely,
God

 

[qenetic|storm]

true...... ghostwriters, ghostproducers.... is common...

 

[StressWon]

God's posts arre always inspiring! Thanks bro!

 

[Formant024]

I think we're stuck in the 60's for what the industries operation concerns. The heads that matter are the heads from back then, the same league of majorlabel CEO's, A&R. I think they still maintain a conservative protocol which is just their prediction on how to generate money, how to build an artist. So for an artist you should be able not to be bothered about personal content but rather just accept it and stick with their intentions, but you just remain a product with a short term value. More of these products in short time will generate more money for them then a few artist that will be supported based on a long term contracts ( like 10 years ). You really must be the britney spears of hiphop in order to remain in the industry or else I think you wont last longer than a year, meaning that your product appeal had been set to a temporary hype/trend which tend to grow old real fast. Im thinking about artist like Sean Paul, I dont see them with strong comeback this summer. In all I would be naive not to think that the industry is shady, thus my perspective and execution of hiphop remaining indy and underground. I have to much appreciation and dedication to my idea of hiphop that I wouldn't even consider making an effort to release hiphop by a majorlabel, that for the reasons god mentioned. I wont say I wouldn't deliver hiphop products to a majorlabel, but I will simply never ever give em something I personaly prefer, it's a job, a contract, I'll do it anyway if I like it or not, just give the A&R what they like to hear and keep the rest underground. They simply wont relate for all the reasons found in this thread so why bother about it. You want to be rich try to educate and get a job, I couldn't set my bets in a country where there are thousands of potentials to be discovered, potentials that are willing to be headfucked by A&R, never to be bothered with after the hype is over. Im to fond of life to get into that crap.

 

[God]

Formant:

Just to clarify a couple things:

I think we're stuck in the 60's for what the industries operation concerns.

What do you think would be a different way of doing things? Music is a business, and it is for profit, that is how it has been and always will be. This example is just one of the ways that people have thought about getting as many "hits" as they can. If you could change the industry, how would you?

I think it's easy to speculate, but once you are aware of the actual circumstances, you have to work with reality.

The heads that matter are the heads from back then, the same league of majorlabel CEO's, A&R.

Most A&R are not old, but young. There is high turnover in A&R. You want your A&R rep to be "in touch" with the music and trends of today's teens. They are usually in their twenties to early thirties. And if they don't have a good record of signings, they will be booted.

Sincerely,
God

 

[Formant024]

What do you think would be a different way of doing things? Music is a business, and it is for profit, that is how it has been and always will be. This example is just one of the ways that people have thought about getting as many "hits" as they can. If you could change the industry, how would you?

I am aware that it has been like it is for almost 5 decades, as explained in the link @ the thread starter. How can I elaborate more specific ? I cant, it's my opinion gathered from my own experience engaging into all facets for what concerns music besides hiphop itself. I've setup an international entertainments company being pretty much the CEO but not the owner. I've learned a lot from it still being based in Europe, but with having offices on a global scale. I've never been biased upon commercial music untill we sketched the initial company and it's initial executions, before that I was all underground with no intentions on making money out of my music, but with the mentality of whatever is in the charts is crap and could be done better by yours truly. Within this event I focused on R&B and commercial rap to exploit ( plus many other genres but this is for the example in our league ), basicly find talent and build their portfolio for them to make an appeal to major labels or if artist is developed with high value remain in our database, label or production house. There's good potential in this company since our customers were major labels from start and knew of our potential during initialising the company, so before we even had " products ". Our focus was not the US alone for making good money quick, for example, it is easier in Asia than in the US to expoit ( any ) execution that an artist has in his potential exploits. The US is hard to get into and there's no room in the monopoly by the few majorlabels that drive their battles in the charts, I personaly dont find it appealing BECAUSE of all the expenses they will charge an artist after they would be signed to a major. Under contract with our company we would take up to 15-20% of the profit gained by our efforts on these artists and our company also had our own lawyers that would back up these artist when being transfered or " sold " to a majorlabel in order to prevent such "milking" ( read raping -indeed- ) an artist till he has no money left ( the TLC effect ). Though this is not how a majorlabel operates, I find this fair to an artist giving him a breakthrough, pushing him into a market and giving this "product" almost permanent value opposed to the fast-consumed artist to fill up charts. Our goal is the money in the transfer to the majorlabel, the artist aswell but in the protocol of the company it is secondary.

I think it's easy to speculate, but once you are aware of the actual circumstances, you have to work with reality.

Reality is, for what hiphop concerns, that undergound hiphop will not be commercialy exploited because of " how it has been and always will be ". I realised during this event and didn't bother to personaly engage in trying so. I love undergound hiphop, I dont even think it is right to be in it for the money. If I did go commercial ( lets pretend I want to be a rapper ), I'd remain a producer and not an artist because their value will be in a considerably small timespan and so does the artist's career. It's not worth the time invested unless you're stupid enough to think about the money ONLY, eager to sign too quick, majorlabels eager to exploited you without a fuss because the artist didn't take the time to realise and recognise his situation. Yes, there are rappers that are still dominating and basicly contradicting to what I am saying, but how would you place your bets in getting inline with the current hierarchy of charttopping rappers ??? Opposed to the numerous potential alternatives being available in the US. There's like 25 well known rappers in the chart to a monsterous amount of moneyhungry wannabees willing to take their place which for most cases wont ever happen besides from maybe local/regional succes. Save it and have a life instead.

 

[Formant024]

Most A&R are not old, but young. There is high turnover in A&R. You want your A&R rep to be "in touch" with the music and trends of today's teens. They are usually in their twenties to early thirties. And if they don't have a good record of signings, they will be booted.

I maybe wasn't clear on that one, logicaly A&R consist of people that can relate much better to their targetgroups. What I meant is that the people within the majorlabels who make the most money are the people you wont see. The breed of founders from the 50's / 60's and their consortium are those that influence and drive a majorlabel, they make the rules for their A&R, they decide the protocol of the company, A&R dont, they're like little scouts monitoring the process of the company's protocol and will make sure that it adapts to the current stream of interest or push to make it so. It's what they call progress/innovation, their means to compete with other majorlabels and chartpositions.

----

Bottomline, there's room for good music, it just doesn't fit their protocol. They runn the monopoly and our efforts to appeal have no point unless you fit what they are looking for, @ the right time, @ the right place. Basicly it is luck which implies that I wont take effort to develop my personal prefenence to what I believe is chartmaterial. It's unpredictable to most unless you really know the nature of a majorlabel and have the ability to play right into that. In reality its vice versa, a major will pick up a suitable product and mold it to their definition of hype.

 

[God]

Formant:

How can I elaborate more specific ?

I never asked that, just how you'd change things... you already did that, by showing your business model in your post.

Secondly, you said A&R were old, but then clarified it. That's OK. Yeah, CEO's are older, and the CEO's of the parent companies are also older and conservative.

It's the problem of art and business, what we're dealing with.

I do have a question:

Under contract with our company we would take up to 15-20% of the profit gained by our efforts on these artists and our company also had our own lawyers that would back up these artist when being transfered

What if the artist wasn't profitable? So the artist takes 80% of the profit? But if there isn't a profit? What about recoupment of investment? Are you basically playing a probability game of wins versus losses in the "sales" of artists to the majors you discussed? And then, I assume, you "fairly" took points off an album, or if you were smart, you would take the "go away" money the label gives you (that you had in your contract) and do the same thing again, using your contacts.

I've seen a lot of people do that. That's a reminder to a lot of people too... TAKE AS MUCH MONEY UP FRONT AS YOU CAN.

It's a pleasure discussing things with you.

Sincerely,
God

 

[Formant024]

I intended to elaborate, keep the thread evolving. That about A&R is my mistake, mind you, I'm stoned mostly while I type and probably lost the context of what I was typing.

What if the artist wasn't profitable? So the artist takes 80% of the profit? But if there isn't a profit? What about recoupment of investment? Are you basically playing a probability game of wins versus losses in the "sales" of artists to the majors you discussed? And then, I assume, you "fairly" took points off an album, or if you were smart, you would take the "go away" money the label gives you (that you had in your contract) and do the same thing again, using your contacts.

Well, 80% is a lot but opposed to the capable amount of artists or productions you can write and produce for should be considered as big as possible. 20% of various productions exploit is still a lot, we also have different services that will provide income so we're not forced to only the headrunners in our database. The big exploit would be the transfer of an artist's contract to a major, which would be the primary purpose for the artist's support. It would be lucrative but this is also biased on the succes of such a productionhouse/media company. I think it's the difference between pushing a market cq. forcing your company under stress or either take the time to develope and deliver a name, the eventual issue is greed, get money fast en easy with exploit of no permanent value opposed to creating a quality product and worth our effort. I'd like to establish a company with a name that would last instead of having little revenues that under different identities or doughter-companies. Just the difference in marketing, I want to build and exploit Ferrari not a mass produced Ford.

 

[Craig Gantt]

So...this is what industry heads talk about huh? Im thinkin "make dope music" and theyre thinkin "make as much money as possible" I can see where that would cause a problem

 

[Formant024]

Yeah, its one or the other and both serve a different purpose, the downside to it is that the whole US chart inflicts the global chart and that means that a production house has not much room for the charts in order to get that mass appeal, unless your clientel and reportoir is known. In all it's a pain to get in US elevator to nr1., competition is killing and your appearance in the field mostly unsignificant because you dont know whom. That is a weak spot for an artist and a hookpoint for labelscouts to exploit such a victim when he's desperate for "fame ". My opinion on quickk and good money is not to focus too much on the US market. It takes a lot of extra effort and remains a risk while exploits in Europe and Asia are easier to encounter and have quiker result in terms of exploit and career. Maybe not directly big in the US, but big in Japan is good enough for me and and provides lucrative possibilities without the typical industrial dangers. It has to suite your perspectives, my aim isn't the US market, I aint out to destroy my efforts, I want this job to remain for at least the next 30 years or so, that's my definition of lucrativity.

 

[J-malice]

LOL damn i scared to post anythin dealin with this subject. i might look stupid.

 

[da_rippa]

yo dis thread is deep an make me think about a lotta things. ppl dat dont believe dis are ignorant tho.i personally kno dr. dre's former ghostwritere. he wrote been there, done that, an sum otha hot ones. he neva made it big but he's livin off royalties. he got an album plaque to prove it. everything aint wut it seems. so believe wut u want but i back my boi jay an erybody else dat kno da truth. one

 

[blaqcyde]

yo this is sum real deep info here...i was wonderin why it took so long for certain artist to come out

 

[Formant024]

Well, thats logical actualy, the main bottleneck are the other 100.000 artist that have " trouble coming out " since there's only so little space for them in the charts .