beat matching / sampling trouble

Iron Keys

Deadly Melody Kung Fu-ist
#1
right, i wernt sure if to post this in the digging section and i couldnt find a thread on it yet (altho there may be one)[my bad if there is]

but i want to start getting int sampling a bit for that traditional hiphop sound, thing is, (as i said before) no clue how to do this. main problem is matching/finding the right tempo of the sample.

im using cubase sx3, basically i played the sample for 9 bars and have the metronome ticking away, i got the thing in time (or thought so) for the first 4 bars..and it sounds perfectly in time, then its suddenly maddd off time. can anyone offer their advice on tempo matching please :)

right, just FYI at the mo im trying to fuck with 'Clarence Reid - Running Water' courtesy of Blunt's get your crates up (good looking on that fam). so if anyone no the tempo for that, would be great help.

i know some songs get recorded at different time signatures. is an MPC the best option for dealing with sample based production?

much love,
my bad on the sampling knowledge spazzery :-/
 
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NobleWordz

Member
Battle Points:
4
#2
You don't necessarily need the tempo to sample a track, if your looping you do but when you chop its not really an issue (usually). On my MySpace all tracks but 1 don't match the tempo of the song, they may not be great but the chops fit.

Its all about experience, the more work you put in the more you will get out. Practice is the key, eventually you will have it down. Personally I like to have a vision of the track before I chop something up so I know how to make my chops.

Now if you really need to find the tempo of a track you can tap tempo it (FL has this feature), basically you play the track and tap on the keyboard (or any input device) every beat, that will give you a tempo to work off. Google Tap Tempo you should find more detailed info.

Other people might not agree but if your sampling I suggest you at least try out FLStudio, one of its strengths is the way it handles samples. For me its like a virtual MPC, that's how I look at it. You can record, chop, sequence, mix and a lot more all within FL.

Hope that helps.

Just curious what part of London are you from?

NW
 

2GooD Productions

Its a fucking conspiracy!
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points:
179
#4
Trying to beatmatch a sample source that has been played live is never going to be spot on, due to the fact that humans are not computers, as illfellaz said, chop shorter peices. The more over the place the tempo goes the more chops you have to make. And be sure to have clean chops, that hit ontime and end without any clicking which can be caused by an unclean chop. The smaller the chops= the more adaptable to tempo changes the samples become. Try chopping the kick, snare, hats and other percussion seperatly then rebuild the samples into a whole new drum pattern/sample sequence. Thats where the magic begins, other wise its the old fashioned chop a loop, rinse and repeat. Adding bassline etc to a basic loop. I use both styles in my production. the sample is important too. If a basic loop sounds hot then its hot, if it aint broke why fix it sort of thing. Hope that helps. I do all my chops in soundforge and then open the chops in reason and sequence with that.
 

slik da relic

RS Jedi
Battle Points:
1
#8
sounds like u wanna timestretch... first, looop it perfectly, then chop/slice the loop... ull then be able to adjust tempo and pitch... im not a software guy, but thats how its done on the RS, and prolly the MPC, ASR... etc...

da relic
 

Iron Keys

Deadly Melody Kung Fu-ist
#9
Yeah I know I was thinking a bit more specific lol.

NW
oh snap, i thought when u put NW u was refering to being from north west. what part of london u from then?


does anyone know of anygood erm wat would u cool it, a tuner or pitch finding plug in?, basically a plug in that will tell you the note of watever goes thru it. the one i have (G tune) isnt responsive enough, and hardly ever sais anything at all.
 

Chrono

polyphonically beyond me
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points:
5
#12
i just started to focus my attention on samples. i didn't know that "tuning" programs existed although I find the notes by loading a realistic piano and matching the basic melody of the sample with the keys. I have not ran into a problem matching the melody as of yet.

It is nice when you identify the notes so that you can remake the entire melody with your own instruments and cut out the need for the sample, avoiding copyright issues.. i'm not concerned about legality because it's just a hobby so for me it opens up incredible options. Using the sample to my constructed melody, tweaking the sample or seriously cutting it up to the specific horn or string and using that, or whatever.. at this point the creative artistry takes over in direction.
 

2GooD Productions

Its a fucking conspiracy!
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points:
179
#13
i just started to focus my attention on samples. i didn't know that "tuning" programs existed although I find the notes by loading a realistic piano and matching the basic melody of the sample with the keys. I have not ran into a problem matching the melody as of yet.

It is nice when you identify the notes so that you can remake the entire melody with your own instruments and cut out the need for the sample, avoiding copyright issues.. i'm not concerned about legality because it's just a hobby so for me it opens up incredible options. Using the sample to my constructed melody, tweaking the sample or seriously cutting it up to the specific horn or string and using that, or whatever.. at this point the creative artistry takes over in direction.
Co Sign.
You wont learn much from using pitch finding software, the best way by far is as said by chrono.
 

Chrono

polyphonically beyond me
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points:
5
#15
I'm afraid you still have to gain permission from the composer.

NW

ahh your right.. hmm i wonder specifically how much you would have to change the notes to make it legally clear or if there is any proof that it was formed from that skeleton melody than it is illegal. I'm really not into ripping off other composers hard work and talant; if anything else a skeleton from a sample melody sparks ideas that could get me in a direction completly different than the original melody.

all in all though if you had a melody that you copped and lightly changed the notes from an obscure 70's record like Ray Anthony or someone and also changed the instruments it would be very hard to tell. But legally does anyone have the specifics on this topic?

-ct
 

NobleWordz

Member
Battle Points:
4
#16
ahh your right.. hmm i wonder specifically how much you would have to change the notes to make it legally clear or if there is any proof that it was formed from that skeleton melody than it is illegal. I'm really not into ripping off other composers hard work and talant; if anything else a skeleton from a sample melody sparks ideas that could get me in a direction completly different than the original melody.

all in all though if you had a melody that you copped and lightly changed the notes from an obscure 70's record like Ray Anthony or someone and also changed the instruments it would be very hard to tell. But legally does anyone have the specifics on this topic?

-ct
I don't know a lot about it to be honest but apparently its a lot easier clearing a score than recorded works. A lot of the time you can bypass the labels and stuff and go right to the artist/composer. Keep in mind I'm speaking in general.

I guess it comes down to how similar it is. Plus a lot of music becomes public domain ofter a cetain amount of years http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter0/0-a.html#3

For example a Beethoven composition is up for grabs but say an orchestra made a recording of it in the 80's the recording itself would have a copyright but not the score.

I don't see anything wrong with it, I'm very sampled based so it would be hypocritical if did.

NW
 

Icemanbeats

Icy
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points:
152
#17
get kontakt3
install it, open it in cubase
learn how to use it...

beatmatching is easy, you just loop something and get it right with the pitch settings or time machine settings... chopping is easy, u don't need recycle or some wave editor, and u can map ur chops to the keys.. as long as the pitch/time settings are right, it will all fit together...

but don't rely on the cubase audio tracks or some tacky sampler for messin w samples, use a good sampler VST (kontakt lol)... unless u wanna go at it the long and not so fun way
 

Iron Keys

Deadly Melody Kung Fu-ist
#18
get kontakt3
install it, open it in cubase
learn how to use it...

beatmatching is easy, you just loop something and get it right with the pitch settings or time machine settings... chopping is easy, u don't need recycle or some wave editor, and u can map ur chops to the keys.. as long as the pitch/time settings are right, it will all fit together...

but don't rely on the cubase audio tracks or some tacky sampler for messin w samples, use a good sampler VST (kontakt lol)... unless u wanna go at it the long and not so fun way
yh i wanted to get kontakt, but 1 i aint got money to go cop it, 2 i dont like using cracked shit as it always seems buggy.

on the issue of legal issues, im sure u cant copyright parts of a melody, like say someone played up and down the scales like say; abcdefgfedcba, surely they cant copywright tht, so surely if part of ur melody is same as their melody they cant claim it as it could be purely axidental. :-/ but still, i dont know enuff about tht. im not really a sampling producer tho. only made one sampled track and its weak
 
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