Important Current state of the battles

Fade

Beat Scientist
Administrator
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
Given the current circumstances, maybe it's time we take a look at what's happening with the way battles are done here.

A bit of history

When I first started the battles way way way back, it was just the Beat This. One of the rules was if you won, you could not compete in the next one. This way it would be a new champion each time.

As I brought in other battles, there were some quirks but they always worked themselves out.

After a while, we noticed that some people were winning more often in various battles. I figured it could easily be people voting for names they recognize, so it was somewhat biased. This is when I made all the battles anonymous.

I used to also have the voting in a poll but then people would complain and wonder who voted for the other guy and how come they lost by only one vote, etc....

The current state

I think the battles are great right now. We have everything anonymous and even the votes are not display, so as to avoid any squabbling. Sure, some people win more than others but it's not a conspiracy. Some beats are just better than others. But there are also other things at play as well, like:

  • Sometimes a certain person might win because of a certain theme. For example, if the theme is Boom Bap and that's you're specialty, your chances of winning are obviously much higher.
  • The same thing applies if there's a 1 minute time limit. Some people are better at putting together shorter beats (as opposed to some with long intros).
  • It's usually the same members competing (plus random newbies here and there), so of course you will hear the same styles for each battle.
So, what do we do?

When we had issues in the past with voting in the polls, I made it anonymous. The same thing applied to the names displayed, I made that anonymous as well. So now there's no biased going on except for maybe someone's musical preference, but that is always going to happen.

In other words, what else can we do?

My ideas:
  • Bring back the old rule of no one can compete back to back after winning.
  • Maybe have some battles that are only for non-champions.

I'd like to hear from everyone and maybe we can come up with ideas to somehow make it better.
 

Dahmi Mortals

ReZoUnD
Battle Points: 31
You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. This is that community @Fade, I enjoy it. Sure there can be frustration but thats the same with a mumble rapper to a rap GOD, the "Rap God" needs to understand its a trend and thats whats going on here at the beatbattles. We can take it or leave it. Politics always has some one winning and the other loosing no matter what they do. But i can see you want to accommodate for us Losers...but how do you make a loser feel good? We can keep battling or quit. IMO

I think that anonymous thing you got going is great, But who decides on "quality" if some of us cant mix for damn then theres that. If there needs to be an update to remove most skeptics I would use a 3 point system if posable. 1) quality (2) transitions or mood change (3) same anonymous voting. This would mean you (@Fade) would have to engage in the battles to judge for 1 and 2, wish if this is out of the question then I understand thats more work for you. But if you did, you would only have to judge "this sounds like a record" type of feel, and you're a record dj or enjoy that stuff I believe...well that gives you experience on moods and transitions between records at least so that the beats aren't mundane or a simple loop like some of your forum posts imply, or at least what Ive read. But...like I said even with these ideas there will be some negative feedback, so we can add these ideas or others but what ever you do...heres my best attempt in helping you with advice in this issue...Don't try to be a Hero, you cant save us all. Let us vent and complaint and allow your star winners like @DEEZ BEATZ to pull there D*#k out on the table and enjoy the reactions like Jealousy:eek:, Hate:mad:, Envy:oops:, or congrats on that piece :woot: etc etc. lol, for me I am just posting 1beat only because most producers are monotonous and thats perfectly fine and it works and not just here, so keep up the good work fade whatever you decide.
 

Fade

Beat Scientist
Administrator
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
I appreciate the feedback.

Yes, that's just the way it goes it's just at this point I can't see many options since I find the battles are air tight already. I've had so many people over the years complain about different things in the battles and it's frustrating but at the same time, they have to also realize that it's just how it goes sometimes.

Take a look at the Warzone and Battle That. Both are bracket-style, and I choose the names at random. Sometimes it just comes down to who you happen to get. There have been favorites that are gone in the first or second round. Other times there's beats in the finals that shouldn't even be there.

I always think back to DJ battles back in the day and how it was done. One of the criteria for the judges was the crowd reaction. So what happened? Some DJs would get their buddies there to go crazy during their set, when everyone knew the DJ was just okay. But sometimes it worked at the judges were influenced. Other times the judges were friends with certain DJs, so most likely they would win and not some no-name.

As for the battles here, I think they're great although I wish I could make a few cosmetic changes, but as far as the way it's set up, I don't see much of a change, unless like I mentioned above about having current champs not compete in the following one.
 

ArvinArmani

Obash Composer.
Battle Points: 62
Given the current circumstances, maybe it's time we take a look at what's happening with the way battles are done here.

A bit of history

When I first started the battles way way way back, it was just the Beat This. One of the rules was if you won, you could not compete in the next one. This way it would be a new champion each time.

As I brought in other battles, there were some quirks but they always worked themselves out.

After a while, we noticed that some people were winning more often in various battles. I figured it could easily be people voting for names they recognize, so it was somewhat biased. This is when I made all the battles anonymous.

I used to also have the voting in a poll but then people would complain and wonder who voted for the other guy and how come they lost by only one vote, etc....

The current state

I think the battles are great right now. We have everything anonymous and even the votes are not display, so as to avoid any squabbling. Sure, some people win more than others but it's not a conspiracy. Some beats are just better than others. But there are also other things at play as well, like:

  • Sometimes a certain person might win because of a certain theme. For example, if the theme is Boom Bap and that's you're specialty, your chances of winning are obviously much higher.
  • The same thing applies if there's a 1 minute time limit. Some people are better at putting together shorter beats (as opposed to some with long intros).
  • It's usually the same members competing (plus random newbies here and there), so of course you will hear the same styles for each battle.
So, what do we do?

When we had issues in the past with voting in the polls, I made it anonymous. The same thing applied to the names displayed, I made that anonymous as well. So now there's no biased going on except for maybe someone's musical preference, but that is always going to happen.

In other words, what else can we do?

My ideas:
  • Bring back the old rule of no one can compete back to back after winning.
  • Maybe have some battles that are only for non-champions.
I'd like to hear from everyone and maybe we can come up with ideas to somehow make it better.
I liked your first idea, but I've played the underdog the whole time I've been here, what I always wanted to know was the amount of my votes and my opponents votes, but more specially my own votes. cause for many times i really thought my beat deserved to at least win a round, but it didn't.

So here's my idea to solve this problem, if you make the amount of votes that someone lost by (like if i got 2 votes and opponent got 4, then the counter would show 2) visible, and also showed the amount of votes someone's beat got visible, but only to the maker of that beat.

also there's one more thing that is unfair in the beat this, and that's the way opponents are chosen, because the one who lost to the diamond beat before the final round is probably more worthy than the one who has the silver beat, because he/she got more votes in the first rounds just so he/she can be raped by someone like @DEEZ BEATZ :|

also for your second idea, i think we already have too many battles @Fade , if you're gonna add another one, it Has to be something Really special, like the youtube poll idea or something like that.
 
Last edited:

Dahmi Mortals

ReZoUnD
Battle Points: 31
@Fade nah, not fair to the champs. you suggested a non-champion deal, run with that. make it where first timers and non-winners compete, then win the chance to enter with the elites in there own battle. you're doing back to back battles you should do a "whos worthy battle" then skip to the elite battle, for instance if you have 4 battles in a month you can split it to two "Whos worthy" and two "Battle of the Gods" hehe. Those who have High battle points paid there do's and are worthy untill they fall out in this new format and have to face the scrubs to redeem them selfs.
 

Fade

Beat Scientist
Administrator
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
@ArvinArmani Showing the votes doesn't do anything, I don't see how the voting numbers are important.

I'm confused by what you mean - the Warzone or Beat This?

What I mean about a battle with non-champs is not a new battle, but just like a theme. So Beat This or Warzone for non-champs as a theme.

@Dahmi Mortals Something like that. I remember a while back people mentioning having a champs-only theme that I would hand-pick or something like that. Maybe I could do that but also a theme for non-champs.
 

Dahmi Mortals

ReZoUnD
Battle Points: 31
Sounds good @Fade, lets see how that goes don't hurt to try. At least it wont get old and repetitive and keeping things interesting would be better than changing diapers:up2::blackeye:
 

K-waz

ILLIEN
Battle Points: 124
@Fade I think how your battles are ran are great. I don't have a issue with that. I just think beginner ear beatmaker vs experience producer is a clash. They (beginners) are not looking at the full texture of a beat. They just hear something and they quickly vote on it and the 808 can be horrible or it could be the wrong snare. I think some of these producer/beatmaker needs to be in a proving ground battle and/or it should be a mixing a beat battle lol. That why I like attack of the beats a lot because you tell people whats good and bad about their beat. Then again only the same people always battles so it may not be enough people to expand
 

ArvinArmani

Obash Composer.
Battle Points: 62
first of all only deez could win win 2 warzones in a row, and that happened only once. and if we count all battles, I've only seen someone win the first battle, someone else win the next one and then the first guy win the third battle. so i don't think bringing back that old rule is gonna help, we need more advanced changes.

Showing the votes doesn't do anything, I don't see how the voting numbers are important.
I think it makes the contestants more competitive and also makes the battles more attractive, because

I lost the creative part of my brain last month, but you may use this idea if you want to make the weaker beatmakers be more involved, you can add team battles, make the battle mechanics like beat this, but when the votes are counted, make the beatmakers with higher votes team up with beatmakers with lower votes, then throw the next rounds in with warzone mechanics. hows that ?

I'm confused by what you mean - the Warzone or Beat This?
sorry i was actually talking about warzone, but i checked the history of warzone battles and mechanics are okay, you don't have to change that.
 

Fade

Beat Scientist
Administrator
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
@K-waz That's what I forgot to mention in my previous post! I've noticed that, and it's with all the battles. There have been some beats that got a good amount of votes that shouldn't have. And when I've checked to see who voted, normally it's newer members (most likely they're new at beatmaking as well).

So that's an issue, you're right. A long time ago for the Beat This I picked certain members and we would all judge the beats. No one could vote except the judges. Maybe that's something to bring back? But at the same time I don't want to pick the same people each time (some are busy and can't anyway), but also those judges will have a preference.

LOL it's hard to figure this out. I could just judge everything myself like I do with AOTB but I'd rather not since I want the community involved. One thing also I just remembered was when we first started Battle That, everyone could vote, but the staff's votes counted for a higher percentage. That's an option too.

@ArvinArmani I see what you're saying about the votes but the main issue I have with that is it's much more work involved. I would have to check all the votes and then contact members, etc. It's hard enough just trying to get people to upload their beats properly!
 

ArvinArmani

Obash Composer.
Battle Points: 62
@K-waz That's what I forgot to mention in my previous post! I've noticed that, and it's with all the battles. There have been some beats that got a good amount of votes that shouldn't have. And when I've checked to see who voted, normally it's newer members (most likely they're new at beatmaking as well).

So that's an issue, you're right. A long time ago for the Beat This I picked certain members and we would all judge the beats. No one could vote except the judges. Maybe that's something to bring back? But at the same time I don't want to pick the same people each time (some are busy and can't anyway), but also those judges will have a preference.

LOL it's hard to figure this out. I could just judge everything myself like I do with AOTB but I'd rather not since I want the community involved. One thing also I just remembered was when we first started Battle That, everyone could vote, but the staff's votes counted for a higher percentage. That's an option too.

@ArvinArmani I see what you're saying about the votes but the main issue I have with that is it's much more work involved. I would have to check all the votes and then contact members, etc. It's hard enough just trying to get people to upload their beats properly!
Bringing back the judges for beat this is a good idea, specially if you combine it with the online ill meetings and then upload it on yt, but that'd probably be only a dream...
also if you choose the judges from various beatmaking flavour that'd be an awesome idea! I think all you have to do is choose about 7 judges and maybe keep some people as substitutes so if you emailed/messeged the judges and they didnt respond or they told you that they ain't availaible, contact the substitutes.
 

DEEZ BEATZ

THE GOLD STANDARD...
Moderator
Battle Points: 727
I'm sorry, but i keep hearing the same complaint over and over again...maybe instead of blaming voting and or new listeners, new beat makers...step back and and ask yourself this.." maybe i need to step my game up" i mean honestly i have won contests with "BOOM BAP" and "TRAP"...so to me there is nothing bias about the community at all...i first joined in Jan' 2017...got my ass kicked every contest...but then i listened to what made the winning beats better...and found out that they weren't boring.. they were catchy and the quality was great...so i did my homework and invested in the tools that could help me sound better...then it took me 5mos later in May '2017 i won my first contest...but then it was still iffy on my part...i still had more work to do...but when i started producing for artists and when i started engineering for a real recording..i started learning even more....if you look at my winning history...i haven't won as many contests as you guys might think...but sometimes i get on a roll....you guys complained about the "BEAT IT UP" contest..saying it wasn't fair that the voters can see the name of the beatmaker...and i have been tracking the ones who wanted the change it your still struggling to win...so instead of trying to ask Fade for advantages to make things easier for you to win..why don't you just put in the work and quit complaining..honestly some of you hatin' on me because i win a few contests...hell if i won it that means i earned it...so "DON'T GET MAD...GET BETTER"...i personally use these contests to help me determine what beats to sell and what people like...that's it. oh yeah, and it's fun
 

Fade

Beat Scientist
Administrator
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
@DEEZ BEATZ is right about that. I've said this in the past when we had issues like this, people complained they didn't win or the voting could be better, etc but some people have to realize that it's not just that.

It doesn't mean your beat sucks. It could be:
  • Your mixing isn't great.
  • It's not catchy.
  • You just happen to be in a round against a much stronger beat.
  • Your beat doesn't stand out.
There's many factors. Some guys have really good beats but they're not the type that stand out. For example, your beat might be very well done, catchy, mixed well, but it sounds like everyone else. Or maybe your beats sound a bit too experimental and people aren't into that.

Years ago there was a guy that complained (actually he freaked out) about not winning the Beat This. He kept saying that everyone is voting for the same people or whatever but then the following month we had a contest and I can't remember the theme, but he won. Maybe some voted for him out of pity but I think he legitimately won. Why? His beat was just really good that time.

So I will still look at changing certain things about voting and see what happens, but just remember that sometimes it's just the way it goes.
 

ArvinArmani

Obash Composer.
Battle Points: 62
I'm sorry, but i keep hearing the same complaint over and over again...maybe instead of blaming voting and or new listeners, new beat makers...step back and and ask yourself this.." maybe i need to step my game up" i mean honestly i have won contests with "BOOM BAP" and "TRAP"...so to me there is nothing bias about the community at all...i first joined in Jan' 2017...got my ass kicked every contest...but then i listened to what made the winning beats better...and found out that they weren't boring.. they were catchy and the quality was great...so i did my homework and invested in the tools that could help me sound better...then it took me 5mos later in May '2017 i won my first contest...but then it was still iffy on my part...i still had more work to do...but when i started producing for artists and when i started engineering for a real recording..i started learning even more....if you look at my winning history...i haven't won as many contests as you guys might think...but sometimes i get on a roll....you guys complained about the "BEAT IT UP" contest..saying it wasn't fair that the voters can see the name of the beatmaker...and i have been tracking the ones who wanted the change it your still struggling to win...so instead of trying to ask Fade for advantages to make things easier for you to win..why don't you just put in the work and quit complaining..honestly some of you hatin' on me because i win a few contests...hell if i won it that means i earned it...so "DON'T GET MAD...GET BETTER"...i personally use these contests to help me determine what beats to sell and what people like...that's it. oh yeah, and it's fun
great points! you're kinda going "Started from the bottom now we here" on this :D ... I personally never hated you, but i've always seen you kicking everyones ass repeatedly, and the first day i joined the ILL, i took a look at the battles and you were the first winner i saw, I even remixed the beat you won that battle with... that's why I'm too obsessed with winning a battle against you, its like a duel with the king.

Damn that beat it up... i was 1 vote away from winning against you :biggrin:
 
Last edited:

DEEZ BEATZ

THE GOLD STANDARD...
Moderator
Battle Points: 727
great points! you're kinda going "Started from the bottom now we here" on this :D ... I personally never hated you, but i've always seen you kicking everyones ass repeatedly, and the first day i joined the ILL, i took a look at the battles and you were the first winner i saw, I even remixed the beat you won that battle with... that's why I'm too obsessed with winning a battle against you, its like a duel with the king.

Damn that beat it up... i was 1 vote away from winning you :biggrin:
Man your music is really good... it's be finding that formula...as far as winning..look at my contest history sometime there are months between my wins..but when I win I win big...Hell Drago and Millstastic?, Wizard And a few other OG's kicked my ass all over the place when I first got here..but I listened and learned...
 

Fade

Beat Scientist
Administrator
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 1
Ah, yes, "OG". Everyone wants that status.... Still a long way to go for that one!
 

2GooD Productions

Its a fucking conspiracy!
*** ill o.g. ***
Battle Points: 179
This argument is as old as when adam first challenged eve to a beat battle, how could you possibly make it any fairer? People get salty when they lose, big egos in music production. I honestly dont know how you can be fairer than anonymity. Is it really fair to make a winner suffer for the saltiness of the losers? They just need to step their game up. If they cant take a loss then maybe a career of constant knockbacks isnt for them.
 

Members online

Latest Beat It Up! Results
Beat #1
4 votes
Beat #3
0 votes
Beat #2
0 votes

ill resources

Top